“Ho’s” everywhere but it ain’t Christmas
August 23, 2010
by Nairoby Otero
|The opinions expressed herein are those of the author, and not necessarily those of The New Agenda.
Women in their 20s are enjoying sex in ways past generations have never known: casual encounters, one night stands, internet sex, and even the ever-so-eloquently-named “f*** buddy,” this being a person that is there for the singular reason of sex, with no strings/ emotions/ feelings attached. Women in their 20s are enjoying pure unadulterated sex. Women are taking control of their sexuality and becoming equal and active partners in sexual rendezvous with men. We are assuming the dominant roles that men have asserted for centuries and are applauded for. Who doesn’t like a man who is strong, self-assured and sexually confident? Now, who doesn’t like a woman with the same qualities? Unfortunately, more than you think.
In theory it sounds great, right? Women knowing what they want and grabbing life by the balls (no pun intended…okay, maybe it was intended). But, in reality, when women start speaking openly about their sexuality and sexual conquests, chances are pretty high that, sooner rather than later, someone is going to turn to the person beside them and smugly label that beautiful, confident woman a “ho.” Is that all it takes to be a ho? Sleep with multiple partners and have fun doing so? And the men having multiple sexual liaisons are…studs? Boys being boys?
As more and more young women become financially independent, they are allowed greater freedom in their concepts of dating and relationships. A woman can take care of herself. She can pay her bills (and that incredible pair of Christian Louboutin) without a man supporting her. This is quickly becoming the new status quo. In previous generations, society told women it was their station in life to act submissive so that a man will find you attractive and he will marry you and subsequently take care of you, which allowed for a conscious and subconscious male dominance where the men call the shots in the relationship.
Today, my generation is strutting into their offices in their power suits and placing their chai lattes on the same conference table as their male peers. This financial independence leaks over into their personal lives. We are not willing to be submissive anymore; we say what we want when it comes to relationships and sex. And we’re not afraid to admit that we have sex drives and wants and needs, just like our male counterpoints. Unlike the generations before us when sex was whispered about, we’re more open to experimenting with our bodies and to talking about it openly. Ladies shared pie recipes to better their homemaker skills and diaper rash remedies to become better mommies; why shouldn’t we also share sex stories to have happier, more fulfilling sex lives? I’d don’t know about you, but I’d rather good sex over good pie.
Let me state for the record that I do not like the word “ho”, but as a result of other women and men confusing empowered, confident, sexual women with “ho” I feel obligated to clear things up. So, I hereby deem myself the authority of all that is HO.
I suppose the easiest example of a “ho” to pass judgment on would be a woman that objectifies her body by appearing almost naked in a music video or appears on magazine covers/red-carpets with barely any clothes. This is a woman that is allowing herself to be seen by the world as only a sexual object. But this is not a time to judge this woman; on the contrary, it’s a time to help her. This “ho” is a woman that is not confidant with her body and her sex, despite the outward appearance. This is a woman that does not understand that she is more than just a body. This is a woman who is not so unlike the housewives from older generations. Sure, she’s trading her apron for a g-string, but she’s still in the same submissive sexual position. Once this “ho” understands that she is more valuable than what she is promoting by objectifying her body she will reach new levels of success and will become a great influence for younger girls to come. In the meantime why are we labeling her a ho for grinding on a pole in a music video, but we all want to dance all night long to the (typically male) singer whose video it is? Why is there always a double standard?
What really gets under my skin is that men and woman are so quick to call a woman who is sleeping with more than one man a ho. When did it become instant ho behavior if a woman had more than one sexual partner? When did enjoying sex for the pure pleasure of it become ho behavior? Why can’t we be called, like our male counterparts, a “player” for having more than one partner? Does our sex not qualify as equal to the men? Why is it when I see a young man walking down the street with his pants down showing the world his boxers is he seen as either being “cool” or an out and out fool, but, if a woman’s undergarments show either accidentally or on purpose, that automatically makes her a ho? Why are women’s underwear overly sexualized and men’s not?
But, I digress. Can we all just agree that sex is great and can be enjoyed by both males and females? Can we stop with the whole “ho” label for women who do the same thing as men? This is not about promoting mass orgies in the streets; or objectifying one’s body; it’s about utilizing our power of sex and understanding the pleasure of physical intimacy.
Great essay! This is a well written piece. From my experience any sexualized woman is a ho. Any woman enjoying sex is a ho. Any woman having sex is a ho, unless they are the man’s girlfriend, then they are his ho. If she’s a wife, then she’s no longer a ho. I agree. I just watch videos all the time to guage the type of pop culture the youth is being exposed to (My mission in life is to protect the future generations), and recently I saw the video to “bottoms up” and it’s, like most other pop culture videos, a man personified and women dancing around him. Both Madonna and Lady Gaga’s art run counter to this theme at times. I like Lady Gaga’s Alejandro video where the men just dance around. The woman in Bottoms Up is objectified female totally reactive to the man. At times she looks like a robot or doll, like also in the recent Beyonce videos. If women aren’t ho’s, they are androids from space.
I’m more than a wee bit older than you Nairoby, but totally agree with what you wrote here. Women, myself included, can feel comfortable about our sexual selves and sexuality without being Ho’s.
What we need to figure out is a way to address that not all women and girls feel this way. There is not a one size fits all solution. And we need to draw the line between being a sexual woman and being sexualized and objectified. Our work together here and glad you are a part of it!
Yes I agree… Why are confident women labeled anything derogatory regarding any aspect of their lives…especially in their sex lives???
But at the end of the day, the women that are labeling other women are just insecure and are hating on the confident woman for not being able to do the very same things.
And a ‘REAL’ man knows the difference between a confident woman and straight up ho, its just a matter of who they choose to deal with based on the amount of effort they are willing to put in.
So I will maintain my confidence and people can say what they want about me…just remember: “The worst thing that someone can say about you contains some truth about them”
I agree with your basic concept that women should be as free as men to pursue and enjoy sexual experiences. I want to specifically address one of the areas that you hit upon, how men and women dress and the difference in the perception of that. I see men walking around with their pants falling off showing their underwear, and women walking around in clothing that either looks like underwear or showing their underwear as sending the same message-”I’m ready for sex”-since either can get out of their “clothes” quickly. The way society perceives one positively as a “stud or player” and the other negatively as a “ho” is the difference. The perception being that it is okay for men to be sexually available by their own choice but not for women to be sexually available by their own choice. That is how it is in a patriarchal society. Men control their own and women’s sexual expression. That is what we are trying to change. I can see you understand that by the way you write.
The question is how to change this. In many ways, in one on one relationships, men and women are definitely becoming more equal with each other. In the work environment however, this is a little more iffy. Women in office environments are usually seen as capable as men of doing the job, any job, as well as or even better than their male counterparts…But, this is where the rub is for me..In the office work environment, men tend to dress conservatively, “no pants falling off”, and this is a signal that they are to be taken seriously. On the other hand, many women in the work setting still dress in an overly sexualized manner, showing cleavage, bra straps, wearing lingerie and costume style clothing, tight skirts and stilletto (feet binding) high heels, like Christian Louboutin’s. This is the perception of how a “ho” dresses. We women need to take more responsibility for how we are perceived, by the way we dress, in the work environment. If we want to be taken seriously and not be seen as a sex object, then we need to dress the part. There is a time and place for that.
I agree that women should be free to pursue a full and satisfying sex life without being labeled as “ho’s”. You are helping that cause by speaking out. Thank you!
Amen Nairoby!!!
What most people fail to understand is that you do NOT need to publicize your sexuality in order to enjoy your sexuality. There is actually a big difference between the two, but so few people understand a difference even exists.
Amen, Karen. I still don’t see why the only way for a woman to “be sexual” is to — whatta coinkidink! — do what men want her to do. Men don’t have to walk around looking like a pedophile’s wet dream to be considered sexual. They eyeball all the girls walking around.
When a woman can “claim her sexuality” by sitting back in a t-shirt and sweatpants with zero makeup on and shamelessly ogle a sexy young man who happens to randomly walk past on the street, then we’ll have made progress. Instead, we’re acting like trained seals and pretending we chose to balance the ball on our noses.
Being a woman who through most of her adult life has been able to embody that stuff with only second effort has in some ways made me more cynical about it. I got sick of being expected to always be perfect when the guys thought that as long as they pulled whatever stunk least out of the hamper they had done their job. “Being sexy” is like scrubbing the toilet — it’s our job, we’d better get it done, and if we wait for them to hold up their end, we’ll be covered in dust.
And ho isn’t just a word for women who express their sexuality. It’s for women who openly, actively, do anything at all. Speak up, outperform a man, make an unpopular choice in your life, have no kids, have too many kids, grow your hair, chop it off … any of the above, and you’re a ho. If you have tits and a brain, you’re a ho.
Not just the word “ho”, but ALL of the words that are constantly used in our society to demean women. The “B” word is so ubiquitous it’s almost impossible to avoid. Not a day goes by that I’m not assaulted by that word through the media.
Interestingly (depressingly) there was an article in the MSM last week titled something like “words that should be put to bed already” – and there wasn’t a single one of the anti-woman epithets on the list.
Nope. Apparently the only problem words out there, according to the (female) author, are words like “towelhead” and “wetback”. Everything else is just hunky dory.
Well said Nairoby. It is empowering for women to be able to openly discuss that we do have preferences and desires when comes to sex and relationships. Women are confidently turning the tables by “strutting into their offices in their power suits”. Thank you for pointing out the difference between empowering our sexuality not by showcasing our barely there thongs and lacey bra straps, but by confidently approaching men as equal counterparts- in woman form. Reinventing sexy with intelligence and confidence, not being afraid to selectively go after exactly what we want- from orgasm to head seat at that conference table.
As a gay man, it’s interesting to hear this point of view, Nairoby. I especially like the point of faux confidence expressed in the scantily clad women seen in hollywood. It’s interesting for me to draw some same comparisons to men in the gay-world
“Women in their 20s are enjoying sex in ways past generations have never known”
!Undemure Cackle! So the younger generation invented sex! Don’t be so sure, older generations of women just didn’t feel the need to advertise their sexual exploits to seek approval.
I do call the women who publicly hump stripper poles in lingerie HOs. And no they are not simply doing what men do I have never seen a man dumb enough to hump a pole in a thong, in public.
By the way the young generation of girls are also calling men HOs. My daughter and her friends refer to a certain boy in their school who is very good looking and has had numerous girlfriends, as “Sean the Manwhore”. It is not a compliment.
Good piece. There is a book with the title “Slut: Growing up Female with a Bad Reputation,” the author remarks that if you live in a society where you are an equal and are sexually free, you are just sexually free. But if you are not an equal and are sexual, you are just a slut.
The fact that women are demonized, reduced to labels, gives others the right to commit acts of violence against them or deprive them of their rights because they are not human because the label has made them less. So it is not like you are hurting another creature with a heart or mind or soul, right? That’s what propaganda is all about–reducing others to a label so that you are morally justified in abusing them.
Hmmmm…I must of missed the part where it was stated that the younger generation “invented” sex. If they are the ones who invented it….how did they get here to talk about it? This essay doesn’t claim that women in their 20s have ownership of the act of sex. It’s simply stating that women in their 20s are in ownership of their own sexuality and aren’t afraid to speak openly about it. This doesn’t mean walking down Fifth Avenue with a bullhorn announcing their daily sex sessions; it means having open and honest conversations with family, friends, and their sexual partners.
Where do you go where women are PUBLICLY humping stripper poles in a thong? You should call the police because that’s indecent exposure. If you’re talking about a strip club, there are PLENTLY of places with men (manwhores, as your daughter would call them) grinding up and down a pole in a thong…and probably a sock stuffed in there. The analogy being made here was questioning why a woman’s undergarments are ALWAYS sexualized, even if they are seen accidentally, while a man’s aren’t.
For the women in past generations who have enjoyed sex and their sexuality, YOU GO GIRL!
RealChange. I disagree that in office environments women are seen as capable of men. The degree to which women are seen as less capable than men depends on the job in question and some other small factors, but women are generally seen as less capable than men in the office environment, in my professional opinion.
Now I worked recently in an office that was quite sleazy. Weird, actually so I cannot say that this office can stand as an example of office culture. But I did notice that more females are wearing dresses to work. Bizarre, quite honestly. However, you are right about what women are wearing. Unfortunately, go to any clothing rack and for women the material is 1. inferior 2. usually see through..you know it’s just basically dinky. You cannot find a good suit as a woman. Most of the suits look like they came off a set of CSI, tight or nylon type stretch material, basically inferior to the nice woolen male counterparts. I had to have mine made. It was well worth every dollar and does not fail to get me an interview (that and my outstanding resume).
So what you see typically in an office is women buying from stores they trust, clothes made for them that are within their price range, but -inferior-. Women can’t, for instance, buy a suit set like a guy can.
Make no mistake about it, clothing tends to say more than anything else on the job. For instance, my suit can only be worn for interviews and major meetings. It’s too good for everyday wear. Instead I opt for pencil skirts and this is annoying to the men, so a lot of the times, instead of getting shunned because you wore a pencil skirt, women are in a bind as to what to wear to the office. There are plenty of nice pant suits, but you have to shell out for em, and women, honestly don’t have the money. They make at best 2/3rd the male salary.
Heels should look terrible in an office environment, but it seems offices and the males are tending toward sleaze as a form of equality.
I never and find no use in blaming women for what women wear. Good and decent clothing has to be available, and fashionable. Men’s fashion is about getting respect and fashion is largely a male dominated field. Heels are always popular in a recession -because women make no money in a recession- and have to resort to getting the funds from boyfriends like society tells them to.
The women in these pop culture videos make money. I can’t blame them for doing what the men want them to do in the video: to make money, to make a living. Women are the sex class and this won’t change until women make progress into leadership positions in all arenas. Hollywood is largely male dominated. Whatever moral or Feminist qualms people may have, they need to remember, that at the end of the day, to every individual woman, it’s about food on the plate and a roof over the head. Society (for now males) dictates how that can be achieved.
Bes, I don’t think it’s ever appropriate to call a woman a “ho”. Whether that woman be an aggressive female boss, a woman who enjoys multiple partners or a woman who actually sells her body for money. It’s a hateful and derogatory word. And if a woman spins herself around a pole is there any surprise that she would do so when the world is for women what it is?
I agree with some of the commentary here. Women have been exploring their sexual freedom for some time whether it be the sixties or my generation of early 3rd wavers. The question becomes are we modeling ourselves after the male definition of sexuality or are we exploring our sexuality on our own terms? The whole world, more or less, has been defined by men so I think it will take a lot of “exploring” to figure out who we really are!
Also, if power and sexual freedom comes with financial freedom, what does sexual freedom and power mean for poor women?
AnneE. The problem is I don’t want to witness the sexual freedom of women who run around in lingerie and stilettos or less and I live in society too. They need to go express their narcissistic, needy “sexual freedom” out of my face, not in my living room on my TV because I have no choice but to have the channels and ads that feature this crap shoved down my throat by the cable company. If I could choose the channels I pay for then there would be no problem. The same for public places unless it is an occasion like the gay pride parade or the solstice parade where nudity is expected otherwise they need to stay out of peoples faces. So I call these women Hos (sex monkeys)because I am frustrated with them being in my face and because I am frustrated with their male subservient form of sex being considered necessary for a woman to qualify as a fully sexual being.
Alison: “The question becomes are we modeling ourselves after the male definition of sexuality or are we exploring our sexuality on our own terms”
I don’t think there is any question, it is clear that women who trot around in lingerie and stilettos (generally designed by gay men) humping each other and stripper poles in public are adopting a male definition of female sexuality. They are seeking male approval so they can consider themselves sexual beings. The fact that most men are not sexually picky and will pretty much bang anything that is female human and not dead just makes these women more pathetic. Again I feel no need to rescue these women I am happy if they just keep out of my face, unfortunately they have taken over Corporate Media and that is a large reason why Corporate media can’t get women to watch their “womens content” channels. It is always hard to tell what is more offensive on a “womans channel” the tit and asspirational ads or the content.
Bes I think that is spot on to a degree. These ideas are sold to women by men and it is possibly the only way they can express sexuality. Like Janis highlights, women just can’t sit back in sweatpants with no makeup on and ogle men. But that’s what men do in Patriarchy and it’s not necessarily authentic female sexuality. I think some egalitarian cultures have a more authentic female sexuality where women sleep with whomever they want and, in the case she becomes pregnant, any man who slept with her feels himself a donor to the child who is mostly raised by the community.
But I cannot blame the women. We analyze the motivations as Feminists and as a Feminist my analysis focuses mainly on economic pressures; the need to maintain housing and food. For all people this involves some compromising of morals, some give and take.
In my previous job I made significantly less than my male counterparts. But I have no interest in taking on my employer to court. I have to step back and say do I have the energy, fortitude, and funds for something like that, regardless of the payout. A lot of women are forced with the decision whether to take a situation of harassment through HR, stay in their jobs, or quit and try to find another one.
One of my best friends was a stripper. She made a living. Along my moral continuum that’s not a compromise I’m willing to make, but for some women it is. Along my moral continuum marriage is not a compromise I’m willing to make, but for some women it is. And make no mistake about it, marriage is a -financial- decision that women make under economic pressures, just like stripping and hooking. No difference in my opinion and no less dangerous to women’s equality than spinning oneself around a pole. It’s just that marriage is more morally palatable to some women.
Now, unless you’re Jesus of Nazareth, you’re making moral compromises every day to put food and a roof over your house. Society largely dictates that, and women are the sex class. So I think rather than trying to impress men, I think women are force fitted into these roles as the only way to express sexuality, or gain independence due to financial pressures.
Frannie,
I’m 44 and I can tell you that women in my generation proudly took ownership of our sexuality too – hence the very popular Sex and the City!
I was in a sorority where we spoke openly about our sex lives and there was no shame nor judgment. That was late 1980s…
Amy,
YOU GO GURL!
I’m going!
Outstanding blog Nairoby and loved the sassy visual.
So great to hear about what young women think and feel as i am 64 and we were told not to kiss on the first date. Also liked Amy’s line “What we need to figure out is a way to address that not all women and girls feel this way. There is not a one size fits all solution.”
Funny, woman find power, money, position, sexy in a man; whereas almost all men find youth, looks and the flirtatious tease – sexy.
Different worlds – nature or nurture?
Very provocative piece Nairoby – Go Girl … and i’m so grateful for TNA platform as a way to explore how women can help empower younger women in every way.
I always considered that I took ownership of my own expression of sexuality. Apparently, I was wrong in that the only acceptable way to “take ownership of sexuality” was to remove my clothing and shimmy.
It’s like a pre-fabricated Instant Rebellion, just add water. A pre-packaged box inside which one will find the accepted way to Rebel Against Society. Um, sorry — there’s way too much irony in there. How the hell can a mass-produced instant product contain rebellion?
I watched an interview with a young actor one time where she mouthed the “I want to keep my job and keep getting hired, so I have to say this” response to why she kept taking off her clothes in movies with a chirpy chipper, “What’s wrong with nudity?” Clap clap clap went the audience. I bet if a nice-looking young guy was on that stage and got up and dropped his pants, we wouldn’t have heard any clap-clap-clap, would we? That audience full of oh-so-hip-and-with-it little nonconformist rebels would have been shocked into gaping silence.
That’s how you recognize the real revolution. Real revolutions don’t come with pre-packaged mass-produced Hollywood-approved applause tracks. Real revolutions aren’t so predictable. If what you’re doing to “reclaim your sexuality” or to revolutionize ANYTHING already has a prefabricated multi-billion dollar industry attached to it … you ain’t “reclaiming” a goddamned thing. GMAFB.
Nancy, I’ll be honest — do you want to know what I find sexy in a man?
A great head of glossy black hair. Slim. Maybe my height but not taller. Easy smile. Level-headed, artistic but also analytical. Not pushy. Curious about the world.
The weird thing is I’ve always been like this — and I’ve known since I was fairly young that I was an anomaly. In every case I’ve ever seen, men with power and money are the worst human beings imaginable. No amount of money will make a blinkered, out-of-shape tone-deaf robot with a heart like a cash register who thinks long hair is for f*ggots “sexy.”
I don’t think it does for most women, but I don’t know. Like I said, I’ve always been an odd duck. But most women just see that as an opportunity to fake a few orgasms, give a few lap dances, and then get a free house out of him ten years later. And most of those women take lovers on the side before the divorce …
@ Janis – feeling comfortable with ones sexuality doesn’t mean faking orgasms or taking lovers on the side…think that is the opposite in fact.
I agree completely — I think I swerved off …
Janis people get the impression that power and position in men is ‘sexy’ because a lot of women date for money and power, not being able to achieve either on their own, and some money dating women are just really high achievers. There will always be these high achievers so you’ll see women around even the most decrepid men. They only pretend its a “sexual” attraction, and male evolutionary psychologists are more than happy to fall for it. Real “sexy” is prowess, I’m afraid, and totally an animal attraction; that means, yes, nice looking men with hearts and minds of fire.
what’s interesting to me is that some of the most radical feminists, the ones who pulled the cart the majority of the way, were strippers or whores. Valerie Solanas: hooker, Andrea Dworkin: hooker. Not shameful or “reformed”. Valerie Solanas died alone in a motel. These women see a side of men women’s husbands, boyfriends, and fathers that the women rarely see, or deny, and that is their willingness to take pleasure in the degradation of another human being. Porn stars, strippers, and whores have been pulling the Feminist cart. at some point we have to realize that it’s only a small majority of women who have financial independence without ever having to live with a boyfriend, for instance, unemployed, and that may be because she has a good education, probably at the hands of a marriage of her mother to a male. If they don’t have fathers, they have boyfriends taking care of them. These males are then future husbands, and never could I tolerate a wife, girlfriend of a male, or any other such relationship judge the finances of an independent woman.
I hope many people read this.
They need to learn what makes poor morale isn’t the sex…it’s when you take someone else’s girlfriend/boyfriend…wife/husband.
Again I think the image of women that is being talked about here is not a cultural definition of women or of female sexuality it is a Corporate Media definition of women. And it is in your home and my home daily without warning if we subscribe to Basic Cable. That is not because it is what the free market demands, there is no free market in cable television. You either get nothing or you get a one-size-fits-all-men-with-an-IQ-under-80 pre selected set of channels. In a free market you would pick the content you want and that would be the sort of content your cable payment would subsidize and that would drive many of the distorted view of women channels out of business. At the same time it would provide funds to develop authentic women’s programing. Also Corporate media and their images of women does not simply reflect our culture as they claim, it can’t because no one but men have a voice in it.
“Janis people get the impression that power and position in men is ’sexy’ because a lot of women date for money and power, not being able to achieve either on their own, and some money dating women are just really high achievers.”
Agreed — but even then, I suspect that it’s not quite the hormonal “I must mate with that” reaction that most of us would classify as a sex drive. It’s “I can convince him that I love him long enough to get money and a house in ten years.” It’s a very above-the-neck, cold-blooded decision when the “golddigger” flirts with the old oil baron, not animal drives at work. It has nothing to do with sex. And very often, the “golddigger” will have a boytoy on the side with whom she is engaging in hormonally motivated activities.
I’m agreeing with you — what we think of as “what women find sexy” is actually a financial and business decision … which isn’t the same thing as when your head starts to effervesce upon noticing a great looking guy in fitted pants.
Great article! So many comments and it’s clear that we are all itching to talk about sex which is a good thing!
I appreciate Janis’ description of the sort of man she finds attractive. IMHO this will be a breakthrough in women’s sexuality… when we can fully appreciate and enjoy what we find attractive versus just feeling sexy and being sexy for someone else. (I know that’s a proper and healthy part of sexuality too but there is indeed an imbalance) Women enjoy looking/ beauty/ hawtness/ too!
Where I come from a man with multiple sex partners are also labeled Hos as they should be.
I have had multiple sex partners since I was 12 years old so this has been happening for decades. I am also confident in my sexuality rather I am having multiple sex partners or am not having sex at all.
First of all a lot of these young girls are not having sex responsibility. They are having sex with married or involved men and they are not using protection.
I used to prefer bare too then AIDS hit and my motto became “NO Glove NO Love.” Ladies the pill won’t protect you from HIV or any other STD and the increase in these diseases are the result of all these people of both genders having Multiple partners without protection.
Women also have to understand that if they ever want to get married their sexual history is going to bite them in the butt. Men in this day in age are still not going to marry a woman who has this kind of interest. Old fashioned maybe but reality.
If this is what you want to do then do it but do it smart. I save unsafe sex for those I am interested in having a relationship with after several HIV tests maybe it kills the mood but HIV is not fun even though it can be controlled now taking a huge cocktail of anti viral medication is not fun especially since you have to take it the rest of your life. Watching a close family friend almost die from full blown AIDS and spend the rest of his life on cocktails which have terrible side effects. HIV has no cure even under control the side effects are terrible. Think about that before you have unprotected sex.
I don’t call women or men hos if they are single I don’t care how many men/women they sleep with but if they mess with someone who is dating, going with, or married to someone else then that man or woman is a ho I don’t care how liberating sex is your hurting another woman and likely to be beat up.
I have a sexual partner count in the upper hundreds over a life time and I have been with as many as 7 in a week all single and all wore a condom.
Once you have children and they get a little older then you want to hide that sort of lifestyle from them because like it or not your sleeping around will affect them they will be teased. Its not wort it
Like I said being comfortable in your sexuality is inside of you rather you have multiple lovers, one lover, or not any.
What I tell my young adult daughters is have sex but be careful and use a condom. I tell my adult sons to remember that the pill won’t keep your dick from falling off. That makes them listen. I don’t encourage my daughters to marry as a virgin either because they need to experience more then one lover but be careful.
You want to have several sexual partners then remember these words “No Glove NO Love”
Love the article, though some of us women from past generations had plenty of fun embracing our sexual liberation.
I do want to address kiuki’s argument that marriage is analogous to stripping on her moral continuum. As a married woman, I can tell you that economic dependency and financial hardship played no role in my decision to marry. I’ve generally made more than my husband since we met. Not everyone gets married for money reasons, and so to paint it as a similar choice to stripping is a bit offensive, IF that’s what you meant. You may have meant something else and I misconstrued.
Anyway, I married because things outside of currency have value for me. I love the long talks we have, and the cuddling I can get whenever and wherever I want it, and yes, I married because I get one heck of an orgasm every. single. time. hehe. Just thought I’d put this differing point of view out there.
I think a lot of women also marry because they get hit between the eyes with the wannababy instinct. I haven’t felt it myself, but I’ve seen it, and it does seem to be a real thing.
AB – looks like you get the last laugh – you’re too much!
I agree with Janis’s last comment. There is the myth that women find money and power sexy in a man. Remember when People magazine named Donald Trump the sexiest man alive? Yeah right, and that is supposed to be a “women’s mag”. In reality that is simply what gold-diggers go after and that is a business decision not a sexual one on a woman’s part. The real hormone inspired lust for a man has to do with physical attractiveness not net worth. But what is portrayed in media is what men think. Under men’s direction, media has defined the half of women’s sexuality where women sit happily on their average sweat panted bums and check out hot men, out of existence. The only part of our sexuality that media men have allowed women to have is the half where we always worry how we look and they look at us. Some women can’t participate in sex on that level and others don’t want to. Lets face it we all live in real life where we are constantly able to check out hot men so why should enter media world where we are restricted in our sexuality. Basically “Women’s content” is where men try to sell us our part in their sexual fantasies and we ignore them because we have our own unauthorized and taboo fantasies, they are so threatened by this that they have been unable to exploit women’s fantasies for monetary gain.
Couldn’t agree more Nairoby…I came of age in the late 70s and I can tell you there was plenty of sex then too…but not as upfront as today. I’m glad that young women believe they have a right to their sexuality, but it amazes me that so many years later, girls are still called derogatory names. I think some women can handle it and don’t care, and others have a hard time with the labels. And we’re still in a place where a woman’s sexual history makes it hard for her to claim she was raped and suffered any sexual assault. All of those creepy,sexist ways of thinking are still with us.
Bes, you are so right …
Pat, I remember the 80s and late 70s when men could be rather pretty … compared to now, I think the girls have less of an opportunity to really claim a sexuality. They can pretend to claim the male-defined sexuality for their own, but that’s the only choice. Hoochie or nun. Women’s sexuality is like running water — it runs hot and cold at the will of its (male) user, and otherwise, does not run AT ALL.
This came up on another post a little ways back, but it’s topical here, how much of a shame it is to see girls posting at places like YouTube at old videos of groups like Styx and David Bowie and almost dying in shock that, back in the day, men dressed up and even wore spangles! And they didn’t bulk out on steroids until they looked like Clydesdales that had been dipped in Nair. You’d think they just found out the Earth goes around the sun.
Nairoby – did i get people off your point. If so, sorry. I thought it was about sex and not about a husband or partner which is why i threw in what were considered the traditional attractions for men and women. Who doesn’t love cuddles, laughter or someone you can talk to for hours or years.
sexy men were Mick Jagger (i know right!) Bill Clinton (still handsome and charming) and Jack Nicholson. I was just giving a very old perspective or maybe I’ve lived inside the Beltway WAY TOO LONG.
My point was what was considered sexy. Why “In my day”
Great discussion. Nancy
maybe it’s my age, maybe it’s my experiences and I know from talking to women that I am not alone. I don’t give sex such high priority as delivery of fun. sex can be fun, but a gazillion other things can be fun. i get that funny taste when I see sexualized bodies trumpeting from all bill boards, the medical profession treating women for having not “enough” interest. I thoroughly question the notion that sex should be such important in our lives.
I absolutely don’t mind if women are sexually active married or not, one or many partners. but I think there is a huge push toward that behavior which in the end insures men that they are indespensible. and many other incredibly worthwhile activities are lost.
I grew up with several years with very happy nuns who lived fulfilled lives and many were incredibly creative. joining a convent was attractive at the time. i figured to be way too independent and could tolerate a closed community.
the very existence of rape in our society, the way men talk about their female sex ‘partners” is not attractive to join the club.
I think this is off point of the article. Nairoby isn’t debating the qualifications for a marriage partner. She, I think, is saying it’s okay for her and us all to enjoy sex as a woman. Not that all do or that we all have to. But this is not about qualifications for the right men to marry – at least how I read it.
Most of us are looking for or have found the right person to get off with, whether that involves a toy (not a person, but legitimate nonetheless!), a hook up, a relationship, or a marriage. I’ve really enjoyed the diversity of women’s opinions about sex expressed here. It’s great when snappy articles like this can lead to such open discussion. I think the irreverent tone of the article promotes discourse. Well done, Nairoby!
Anna, ITA. I like looking, but when push comes to shove, the whole activity is so ugly in what society has made it that I’m much happier and more content not taking part and letting the occasional daydream satisfy me. Some men’s bodies are nice, but having one in close proximity is just not worth all the garbage that comes along for the ride. A nice occasional fantasy doesn’t drop its dirty laundry all over the bedroom and pretend not to see it, belittle or become jealous of your ambitions, or act like a sullen teen when asked to scrub the toilet for the eighth time. No butt is well-shaped enough to make up for that.
When you think about it, it’s a wonder women’s sex drives survive this world at all.
I think the name calling is aimed at women who have a need to be too public with their sexuality. For some people if everyone doesn’t see you being sexual then you aren’t sexual. I want the “public sex women” out of my face, in real life and in media and especially in women’s media. In real life I never look at women who are sexually aroused and that works for me. I do look at men who are sexually aroused and that works for me. But all media is shot from the male camera mans perspective and I do not want to see life through male eyes.
In a zoology/social psyche class I took they dumped us at the zoo and we had to score animal behavior for endless hours in the rain. You find that female animals behave differently to other female animals than they do to male animals (male animals behave differently to females than males also). If a female uses her male directed mannerisms on a female she is likely to get pounded But that is what has happened in media. Males control media, they see mannerisms women display towards men and they like those so they pick women who deliberately display these mannerisms all the time to be in media and all it does is alienate women viewers on a primal level. It is an extreemly subtle problem but it makes women in media appear to be not authentic. Men can’t perceive it because they have only experienced female mannerisms towards males and think women behave that way toward one another.
I think the whole language of sex has to change before women have anything resembling bodily autonomy or equality. Even today, the worse insult you can call somebody is a four letter word which means to be on the receiving end of sex.
“Men can’t perceive it because they have only experienced female mannerisms towards males and think women behave that way toward one another.”
This is SO TRUE. They also can’t understand how a man who acts one way toward them can be completely different to a woman. It’s the same thing — they just do not see how people change when they are interacting with women, and it’s because of exactly what you said: they think the entire universe is a male, just like them. It’s the flip side of that dumbass song in “My Fair Lady,” where Higgins whines about why a woman can’t act like a man.
It’s because when the other man expects you to fetch and carry for him 24/7, he’s not treating you like he’d treat a man, either. But he’s never been on the receiving end of that, so as far as he’s concerned, it doesn’t exist.
This is interesting. The conservative group American Family Association is having a 2 hour back to school special on sexual assault of children, mostly girls and also on the “cultural” (Corporate Media) pressure on girls to define themselves as only sex objects. I don’t see anything like this coming from the Left. Of course they have not admitted there is a problem yet. They call the special “Yellow Roses”. Anyway I am always interest when someone outside Corporate Media gets content delivered past the gate-keeping. http://www.afa.net/
There are two reasons why I don’t like the word “ho”. Firstly, it is insulting to actual “hos”, i.e. prostituted women/girls, most of whom are just doing what they can to survive, and most of whom are forced into being “hos”. “John” and “pimp” should be the words to use as insults, not “hos”. Secondly, it is the double standard that has been noted here, i.e. activity that provides sexual pleasure to women = bad, and activity that provides sexual pleasure to men = good.
Well, after reading through this discussion on female sexuality, male perceptions, what women should and should not do, or what women should or should not be called.
I have a simple solution.
A Woman’s image and how they are treated are up to them.
BEFORE YOU COME UNHINGED AT THAT STATEMENT..COUNT TO 10 AND THINK ABOUT IT……
We are not victims. VICTIMS ARE WEAK AND THAT IS WHAT THE PREY WANTS!!!!!
We are the commanders of our gender. If you want respect then you must command it with all of your actions including what you wear, how you speak, how you act, where you go, and the choices you make in life.
Sure, there will be men who will always be jerks. But, if you play your life right and have the respect of the majority of the other men, the jerk is the minority.
Let me use Hillary as an example. Yes, she was hit with gender put downs all through out the Democratic Campaign by both male and females.
But guess what……………….WHO WON THE POPULAR VOTE? WHO WON THE MOST VOTES THAT INCLUDED BOTH MALES AND FEMALES? HILLARY DID. SHE SET THE HISTORICAL RECORD OF WINNING THE MOST PRIMARY POPULAR VOTES OF ANY POLITICIAN OF ANY PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY. She lost because of the super-delegate system in the Democratic Party election system. THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY WAS FIXED.
BUT NEVER FORGET, SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE….despite the SEXISM…..HILLARY COMMANDED RESPECT BY HER ACTIONS. THE SEXISM OFFENDERS WERE THE MINORITY OF THE VOTERS.
HILLARY WAS NEVER A VICTIM.
SHE WAS AN EXAMPLE FOR US ALL TO FOLLOW AND SHE WAS THE FIRE THAT SET THE NEW AGENDA ON IT’S COURSE BECAUSE THE SEXISM AGAINST HILLARY AND SARA PALIN SHOWED US ALL WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT STRATEGICALLY.
No matter what your sexuality is, you are subject to sexual harassment.
When you call females or males out for their choices in expressing their sexuality… that is sexual harassment. We may not like what it does to the image of the female or male. But, women who choose to allow their bodies to be exploited right or wrong made the choice….if they did not make the choice, then they need help.
Help is out here for them.
OK…..I blogged…on the TNA…..
Great piece! You really nailed the issue. First and foremost, stop judging women and calling them names. Second you made the important distinction b/t the women who need help, not judgment, b/c they don’t realize the value in themselves other than their body and the women who genuinely find pleasure in sex and love talking about it. Neither woman should be labeled. I worry that some young women may get the wrong message. Men want sex, women want men, so women need to become a sex object to get a man. Some may even think it will give you power over men. Objectifying yourself is not power. That’s going down the road to unhappiness. Even if it does work and you get your man, what does that give you? A man who doesn’t even know your or value for who you are. I don’t think of sexual enjoyment as power either, but I will say it is going down the road to happiness!
BrendaLee: Most of the concern here is not on behalf of adult women. It is aimed at girls and young women who grow up only seeing sexualized images of women in Corporate Media. They also only see one way for women to be sexual (seek male approval)and that represents a small fraction of real female sexuality. So mostly the concern is that there is only one very loud voice in media directed at young girls. But again Corporate Media is not the same as American Culture and girls do have influence from their families, church, friends sports league, Girls Scouts, Campfire, etc. Mostly if you can keep girls and young women away from Corporate Media they thrive and it isn’t that hard to do.
“The conservative group American Family Association is having a 2 hour back to school special on sexual assault of children, mostly girls and also on the “cultural” (Corporate Media) pressure on girls to define themselves as only sex objects. I don’t see anything like this coming from the Left.”
Bes, the reason why you haven’t heard the Left speak about this issue is because the Left is pro-sex whereas Conservatives are prudish and anti-sex.
Saying that Conservatives are prudish and anti-sex may be an old stereotype. Look at the hot momma’s in politics today and then look at the Dems.
Perhaps long ago but not any more.
i would say that they are in charge of their body image, and teach young girls and woman the same. They
just don’t see abortion as a form of contraception – interestingly the Fed Gov pays for abortions for threat to the life of the Mother, rape and incest but Obamacare take out Life of the Mother.
Bes, it’s a form of tyranny isn’t it? It’s all men, men hiring men to do these jobs in media and then maybe like one woman but she’s in the majority and she hates women to get along with the men above her. All these left women in the media hate women. They do it to act like men. Meanwhile she thinks she’s great and amazing because she’s the only woman there. Well, if all you have are men and the men are putting out images and Evolutionary Psychology story lines detrimental to the welfare of women and girls, that’s tyrannical.
bes and brenda lee, i wish you were right and it would be easy to provide a contrast to our media influence. we went so far to have TV out of the house for long times. the kids today have ipods, it seems the double meaning sexualized lyrics with derogatory talk about girls and women are everywhere. we talk constantly about the lyrics and explain why I don’t like most songs. sports and church and school are no different. the altar girls and boys have ipods too with the same lyrics, same with sports groups. the only available option I see is investing in a variety of music, classic, ethnic and talk, discuss and talk, discuss.
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Great post Nairoby. And a lively discussion to which I’ve sadly cum late (sorry, couldn’t help myself
Frannie: yeah, yeah, yeah ?
Bes: Obviously you’ve never been to a gay bar
(Ooops, and from your later comments, sounds like you wouldn’t want to go to one either 
Kiuku: I wear what I want, when I want. I dress to please myself, to feel professional, to feel sexy, to weed the garden, whatever!
Alison: you are dead right. Delete Ho. No one has the right to judge.
Janis: “But most women just see that as an opportunity to fake a few orgasms, give a few lap dances, and then get a free house out of him ten years later.” Holy Sweeping Generalisations Batman!
(P.S. my effervescing is nowhere near my head… happens much, much further south. I guess we’re different that way…
)
Kiuku & Janis: I for one am not interested in sitting back in sweatpants with no makeup on and ogling men. But I wouldn’t mind doing it in lacy corset, garter belt black stockings, stilettos and, ummm, oh dear.. ummm… hmmmm…..ahhhh…
The expression of our own sexuality is as individual as we are. I can feel comfortable and sexy in gym gear, lingerie, suit, or naked – depends on my mood and the occasion.
Amy: I’m coming with you
Yourfriend: you can’t “take” someone else’s girlfriend, boyfriend, etc. They go willingly. Put the responsibility where if rightfully belongs: on the failed relationship, NOT on the lover.
Helen: woo hoo rock on!
Anna: I also did not marry for financial reasons and also earned more money than my ex-husband through most of our 20-year marriage.
Janis: re marriage and babies: I made the decision years before I got married not to have children and had my tubes tied when I was 27 and single. I met my husband-to-be when I was 29. We were happily in relationship for 20 years.
Greta: “First and foremost, stop judging women and calling them names.” Yep. And applies equally to women judging other women and calling them names.
My philosophy on all of this is pretty much summed up in the words of Shania Twain: I Feel Like A Woman http://www.amazingwomenrock.co.....inner.html
Let’s go girls
Note to self: do not use emoticons on The New Agenda blog comments… LOL
All good Susan. You have me laughing out loud!
Amy: OMG, WTF & LOL: Opened my inbox to find someone had sent me a link to this vid with the caption “What firemen do when no one is looking.” Talk about synchronicity ROFL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42m4c7HHtjg
Sometimes the universe just cracks me up hahahaha
And, just discovered this morning: Strippers Have Brains Too!
Researchers say:
“These women are incredibly body confident. I think there is something of a generational cultural difference.
“These young women do not buy the line that they are being exploited, because they are the ones making the money out of a three-minute dance and a bit of a chat.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/ho.....faces.html
I read most of the discussion on this post by Nairoby, and I have to say as educated as they all sound there is something missing: the point of view of the married woman that has to listen to the young independent female publicly describing her sexual needs in a public restaurant while trying to have lunch with her husband who became easily distracted by what she was saying.
It’s already difficult for women when it comes to defining our worth in this male dominated world let along society, but those who choose to express themselves in a manner that for a very long time has been deemed offensive does not allow for her to be viewed as anything but a “ho”.
Yes, this word is derogatory and has been used against women that don’t deserve this label. However, this word is not the same as saying “no women deserves to be hit”, for example.
If she drops the f-bomb so many times in a fast food restaurant like KFC what else shall we call her? F referring to the sexual term not the frustrating kind!
As we walked out of KFC I called her a “ho”, and I used that label in comparison to pimps and males who talk this way in front of woman to try to get their attention.
My husband’s response to what I said was, “She’s just talking the way a lot of guys do. Guys have been doing it for a long time, so what’s wrong with it?”
What I find wrong with it is that it’s disrespectful to the people sitting around her!
Don’t get me wrong, I think woman should have every right to express their sexual desires, but there’s a classy way to do it.
I took my husband’s response personally because our marriage is strained due to his wondering attention to other women. Women who dress scantly clad like the “video hoes”. He has been trying to get me to dress like that for quite some time, and it makes me feel uncomfortable.
The issue of dress in the work place is a moot point!
My personal experience comes from being in the military as well as being a civilian.
As a soldier I wore the same uniform as the men, but I was sexually harassed anyway. Other female soldiers carried themselves in a very sexual manner which caused them to be treated like “hoes”. I watched them used their sexuality to climb the military ranking ladder!
In the civilian world I watched woman throw themselves around my husband in the work place as well as in general public places. It didn’t matter what they were wearing. It was a conquest for them; “how to get a man to notice you whether they’re with their significant other or not”. This mainly happens when the woman sees the man is taken.
I too have become part of the statistic of woman who stay married for financial stability. 17 years married and quickly losing sexual desire mainly because of his wondering eyes and other sexual things he’s done to make me feel uncomfortable within our marriage and with my own sexuality.
While I can go on and on with my thoughts on this subject, clearly it is one that is a thorn in my side as I’m sure it is for many other woman in my position.
Garments and candor can go a long way for woman, but it’s how you choose to use them together that makes a difference in being labeled.
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