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	<title>Comments on: Beyond Gossip, Good and Evil</title>
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		<title>By: Veronica Mendoza</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-17543</link>
		<dc:creator>Veronica Mendoza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 23:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-17543</guid>
		<description>Hey Elizabeth it Veronica from the feminist panel in Uniondale High School, 

I read your article and have to say that your absolutely right. I being a Latina know exactly what it feels like to look into a woman’s eyes and see their internal pain because they know that they suffer from this injustice (this being my mother and cousins and close relatives. Its absurd how sometimes I believe this “domestic” violence has (in my opinion) almost become a tradition in most cases. Our Hispanic culture suffers a lot from this act and I have always been against it. It’s good to know that their is someone out there that can make a difference and there is no doubt I’m going to make some of my family members read this and tell my friends about it. Thank you so much. Hopefully we keep in touch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Elizabeth it Veronica from the feminist panel in Uniondale High School, </p>
<p>I read your article and have to say that your absolutely right. I being a Latina know exactly what it feels like to look into a woman’s eyes and see their internal pain because they know that they suffer from this injustice (this being my mother and cousins and close relatives. Its absurd how sometimes I believe this “domestic” violence has (in my opinion) almost become a tradition in most cases. Our Hispanic culture suffers a lot from this act and I have always been against it. It’s good to know that their is someone out there that can make a difference and there is no doubt I’m going to make some of my family members read this and tell my friends about it. Thank you so much. Hopefully we keep in touch</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12779</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12779</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the great comments on this. I&#039;m so glad it was posted here, and for all your contributions. 

A couple of notes:

@Skinpolitik: wonderful, thank you. I&#039;m hoping that teens will get a chance to talk about this issue constructively... and particularly that they&#039;ll know where to get more info (Breakthecycle.org or Incite.org, for example). Also, they might be interested in my Vibe piece about violence in the hip hop industry, which addresses the relationship between musical misogyny and domestic misogyny: www.thefreeradical.ca/Love_Hurts_VIBE.pdf

@Anna Belle: I love the photo essay idea. 

@Carolyn: Powerful points. On the whole, intimate partner homicide has declined in the past thirty years or so http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm but I see what you&#039;re saying about the whole ride-or-die archetype that&#039;s so popular with girls now. 

@Shakira: You raise a lot of interesting questions. One challenge, I think, is that some kids aren&#039;t raised to believe that hitting a girl is wrong. Another is that many of them are hit by their own parents, so violence is committed by someone they love regularly-- they get hit if they step out of line, which is the same logic that domestic abusers use. Also, if you noticed in that list of recent murders in the article, several were committed by police officers. Police officers have high rates of domestic violence, so as far as accountability goes, the mechanisms are flawed (particularly in communities of color)  http://www.purpleberets.org/violence_police_families.html
As you can tell from my article, I completely agree about the need for societal accountability-- no more innocent bystanders on this. And I think part of it is educating all of us beyond the stereotypes, because this type of violence is particularly complicated.  

@Lynn: RE the Bloods--The story you mentioned is devastating. I included the anecdote I did not to argue that all members practice what they preach, but more because of how important it was to the member who told me about the rule. He was adamantly opposed to violence against women, as was the other gang member whose aunt had been killed (but as I mentioned, the lone female member in the room said that not everyone followed the rules).  Speaking of not following the rules: My own state senator, Hiram Monserrate, is currently under investigation for allegedly assaulting his girlfriend (she needed 20 stitches). But a group of women stood beside him, and he&#039;s still up in Albany (nobody took his beads away!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the great comments on this. I&#8217;m so glad it was posted here, and for all your contributions. </p>
<p>A couple of notes:</p>
<p>@Skinpolitik: wonderful, thank you. I&#8217;m hoping that teens will get a chance to talk about this issue constructively&#8230; and particularly that they&#8217;ll know where to get more info (Breakthecycle.org or Incite.org, for example). Also, they might be interested in my Vibe piece about violence in the hip hop industry, which addresses the relationship between musical misogyny and domestic misogyny: <a href="http://www.thefreeradical.ca/Love_Hurts_VIBE.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreeradical.ca/Love_Hurts_VIBE.pdf</a></p>
<p>@Anna Belle: I love the photo essay idea. </p>
<p>@Carolyn: Powerful points. On the whole, intimate partner homicide has declined in the past thirty years or so <a href="http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/h.....imates.htm</a> but I see what you&#8217;re saying about the whole ride-or-die archetype that&#8217;s so popular with girls now. </p>
<p>@Shakira: You raise a lot of interesting questions. One challenge, I think, is that some kids aren&#8217;t raised to believe that hitting a girl is wrong. Another is that many of them are hit by their own parents, so violence is committed by someone they love regularly&#8211; they get hit if they step out of line, which is the same logic that domestic abusers use. Also, if you noticed in that list of recent murders in the article, several were committed by police officers. Police officers have high rates of domestic violence, so as far as accountability goes, the mechanisms are flawed (particularly in communities of color)  <a href="http://www.purpleberets.org/violence_police_families.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.purpleberets.org/vi.....ilies.html</a><br />
As you can tell from my article, I completely agree about the need for societal accountability&#8211; no more innocent bystanders on this. And I think part of it is educating all of us beyond the stereotypes, because this type of violence is particularly complicated.  </p>
<p>@Lynn: RE the Bloods&#8211;The story you mentioned is devastating. I included the anecdote I did not to argue that all members practice what they preach, but more because of how important it was to the member who told me about the rule. He was adamantly opposed to violence against women, as was the other gang member whose aunt had been killed (but as I mentioned, the lone female member in the room said that not everyone followed the rules).  Speaking of not following the rules: My own state senator, Hiram Monserrate, is currently under investigation for allegedly assaulting his girlfriend (she needed 20 stitches). But a group of women stood beside him, and he&#8217;s still up in Albany (nobody took his beads away!)</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12742</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12742</guid>
		<description>I agree -- great comments Shakira.  Welcome aboard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree &#8212; great comments Shakira.  Welcome aboard!</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Belle</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12739</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Belle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12739</guid>
		<description>Great comments Shakira. The economic angle is what struck me most. I believe that a big part of what drives people to achieve great wealth, fame, and power is the desire to be protected. (Ours is just a feudal system in modern drag, in some ways.) But that didn&#039;t work for Rihanna. Her money should have made her safe if protection is a big part of wealth. It didn&#039;t. A woman is never safe. I wonder if a woman would even be safe in the White House as President of the US. That&#039;s a really sad thought to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments Shakira. The economic angle is what struck me most. I believe that a big part of what drives people to achieve great wealth, fame, and power is the desire to be protected. (Ours is just a feudal system in modern drag, in some ways.) But that didn&#8217;t work for Rihanna. Her money should have made her safe if protection is a big part of wealth. It didn&#8217;t. A woman is never safe. I wonder if a woman would even be safe in the White House as President of the US. That&#8217;s a really sad thought to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Thia Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12737</link>
		<dc:creator>Thia Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12737</guid>
		<description>What a fantastic article, it just broke my heart.  Thank you for writing such an informative piece!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a fantastic article, it just broke my heart.  Thank you for writing such an informative piece!</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12733</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12733</guid>
		<description>Yes, Sis, you nailed what I had really been floundering to say.  I was thinking about it after I went to bed last night and realized that part of the problem stems from the fact that some of these girls feel ignored and lonely and to get the guy&#039;s attention they act out, he blows up, then for better or worse she got that attention she craves.

This isn&#039;t mean to stereotype or oversimplify -- I just think it is one of the pieces of a large and complex puzzle.  It hits close to home for me.  I grew up with a very loving father and two older brothers who adored me.  Yet I remember that everything revolved around the &quot;men&quot; activities of the family.  I still see this around me all the time and it makes me want to scream.  I get very little agreement or support from any of my friends on this subject, which is why being able to blog on this site has been so good for me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Sis, you nailed what I had really been floundering to say.  I was thinking about it after I went to bed last night and realized that part of the problem stems from the fact that some of these girls feel ignored and lonely and to get the guy&#8217;s attention they act out, he blows up, then for better or worse she got that attention she craves.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t mean to stereotype or oversimplify &#8212; I just think it is one of the pieces of a large and complex puzzle.  It hits close to home for me.  I grew up with a very loving father and two older brothers who adored me.  Yet I remember that everything revolved around the &#8220;men&#8221; activities of the family.  I still see this around me all the time and it makes me want to scream.  I get very little agreement or support from any of my friends on this subject, which is why being able to blog on this site has been so good for me!</p>
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		<title>By: Shakira Washington</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12725</link>
		<dc:creator>Shakira Washington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12725</guid>
		<description>This is a great article. Thank you to the woman who posted the link to Facebook and thank you for writing it... This issue is a troubling one for any number of reasons.  What seems so straight forward simply is not.  I&#039;ve done some work around issues of violence - primarily in the African American community.  As an African American woman, this topic is one that frustrates me to no end.  I&#039;ve heard the back and forth, who&#039;s to blame conversation among my own people to no end.  With far too much of the blame going in the direction of the victim.  

Perhaps my frustration has come from my inability to truly grasp the confusion around what is right and what is wrong.  It seems quite clear. We learn as children - you do not hit others - least of all beat them.  Yet there seems to be so much support within my own community that supports this type of behavior from both males and females.

However, what I have learned from the work that I have done around this issue is that most of the Black women and men that I know or have come across through my work live in &quot;situations&quot; of violence so much that to survive with it they must justify it.  For example, during a series of focus groups that I conducted in one predominantly African American community, the participants spoke about the daily witnessing of domestic violence on their streets and in their neighborhoods.  And more importantly, they talked about their sense of powerlessness to change it - whether through personal or legal interventions.  The resources simply were not there.  Couple this with the lack of financial resources for individual and community change, violence is basically left to breed and grow - and eventually to be justified and excused simply because their are no other solutions.

While the Chris and Rihanna situation should be different because of the financial resources that exist, the reality is that money cannot and does not change the environments or the values that come out of those environments in which we live.  As long as our communities are trapped with no solutions, we will continue to be forced to find reasons or justifications for such behaviors.  And the cycle will go on.  If we grow up watching those around us experiencing violence with no viable solutions except for justifications, then there is a great chance that we as children will learn this lesson and then will repeat it as adults.

From this I find that we as a society can no longer look to the individual (abuser or abused) to find solutions to this problem.  It is a societal issue.  We must provide real viable solutions to people living under unbearable situations.  We need to teach our children beyond our private living rooms, but in our classrooms and in the media that violent behavior simply is unacceptable. And until we create that reality we will leave people with no other options but to look for reasons for why it continues to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great article. Thank you to the woman who posted the link to Facebook and thank you for writing it&#8230; This issue is a troubling one for any number of reasons.  What seems so straight forward simply is not.  I&#8217;ve done some work around issues of violence &#8211; primarily in the African American community.  As an African American woman, this topic is one that frustrates me to no end.  I&#8217;ve heard the back and forth, who&#8217;s to blame conversation among my own people to no end.  With far too much of the blame going in the direction of the victim.  </p>
<p>Perhaps my frustration has come from my inability to truly grasp the confusion around what is right and what is wrong.  It seems quite clear. We learn as children &#8211; you do not hit others &#8211; least of all beat them.  Yet there seems to be so much support within my own community that supports this type of behavior from both males and females.</p>
<p>However, what I have learned from the work that I have done around this issue is that most of the Black women and men that I know or have come across through my work live in &#8220;situations&#8221; of violence so much that to survive with it they must justify it.  For example, during a series of focus groups that I conducted in one predominantly African American community, the participants spoke about the daily witnessing of domestic violence on their streets and in their neighborhoods.  And more importantly, they talked about their sense of powerlessness to change it &#8211; whether through personal or legal interventions.  The resources simply were not there.  Couple this with the lack of financial resources for individual and community change, violence is basically left to breed and grow &#8211; and eventually to be justified and excused simply because their are no other solutions.</p>
<p>While the Chris and Rihanna situation should be different because of the financial resources that exist, the reality is that money cannot and does not change the environments or the values that come out of those environments in which we live.  As long as our communities are trapped with no solutions, we will continue to be forced to find reasons or justifications for such behaviors.  And the cycle will go on.  If we grow up watching those around us experiencing violence with no viable solutions except for justifications, then there is a great chance that we as children will learn this lesson and then will repeat it as adults.</p>
<p>From this I find that we as a society can no longer look to the individual (abuser or abused) to find solutions to this problem.  It is a societal issue.  We must provide real viable solutions to people living under unbearable situations.  We need to teach our children beyond our private living rooms, but in our classrooms and in the media that violent behavior simply is unacceptable. And until we create that reality we will leave people with no other options but to look for reasons for why it continues to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn Ellingwood</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12716</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn Ellingwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 05:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12716</guid>
		<description>Take the Bloods speech about having a taboo about domestic or female abuse with a grain of salt.  I worked in an inner city high school at one time where there many gangs, nationally known to home grown and small.  They often had codes of honor against female abuse and rape.  A student I worked with horribly raped a girl and was a member of a gang.  The girl waited a week or so to report it so there was no rape kit per se.  The gang he was in made the point of taking away his identification beads and officially discontinued his membership.  Then they began terrorizing the girl and convinced her to drop the charges.  So the rape charge and accusations went away, beads came back and he was a member in good standing.  The code of conduct is for PR and for show.  Don&#039;t believe it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take the Bloods speech about having a taboo about domestic or female abuse with a grain of salt.  I worked in an inner city high school at one time where there many gangs, nationally known to home grown and small.  They often had codes of honor against female abuse and rape.  A student I worked with horribly raped a girl and was a member of a gang.  The girl waited a week or so to report it so there was no rape kit per se.  The gang he was in made the point of taking away his identification beads and officially discontinued his membership.  Then they began terrorizing the girl and convinced her to drop the charges.  So the rape charge and accusations went away, beads came back and he was a member in good standing.  The code of conduct is for PR and for show.  Don&#8217;t believe it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sis</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12712</link>
		<dc:creator>Sis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 03:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12712</guid>
		<description>I agree; the idea that he must just love her so much to go crazy like that. And he&#039;s so sorry. What a sensitive guy. 

And they really are role models, Chris and Rihanna. There will be many copy-cat beatings over this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree; the idea that he must just love her so much to go crazy like that. And he&#8217;s so sorry. What a sensitive guy. </p>
<p>And they really are role models, Chris and Rihanna. There will be many copy-cat beatings over this.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/03/14/beyond-gossip-good-and-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-12707</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=6651#comment-12707</guid>
		<description>Oh, I know it happened then, Sis.  It&#039;s just that now the kids in my class seem to be so PROUD of it.  And I mean mostly the girls.  They treat their knocks proudly -- like battle scars.  Something &quot;won&quot; with some sort of honor attached to it.  That is what I blame on the glamorization of violence.  And that is the attitude I don&#039;t remember ever seeing among any of my peers as a teen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I know it happened then, Sis.  It&#8217;s just that now the kids in my class seem to be so PROUD of it.  And I mean mostly the girls.  They treat their knocks proudly &#8212; like battle scars.  Something &#8220;won&#8221; with some sort of honor attached to it.  That is what I blame on the glamorization of violence.  And that is the attitude I don&#8217;t remember ever seeing among any of my peers as a teen.</p>
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