Oprah on Dating Violence
March 13, 2009
by Anna Belle Pfau
|Oprah Winfrey has spoken out about dating violence and the Chris Brown assault on Rihanna. Winfrey and Tyra Banks hosted a live Oprah show from Chicago yesterday where the focus was dating violence. Winfrey dedicated the show “to all the Rihanna’s of the world.” The show has reignited the discussion of Brown’s assault on Rihanna, and at least one CNN male news anchor last night actively wished the topic would “go away.” Typical media reaction, wouldn’t you agree?
But it will not go away, nor should it. It has been painful to watch the media parade of sympathy for Chris Brown while snubbing or reporting negatively on Rihanna and those who speak out against violence against women. Rihanna and Chris Brown were both interviewed by Banks. I did not see the Oprah show yesterday, and would be interested in hearing from people who did see it. How was the treatment? Media reports suggest that the show attempted to address both sides of the issue, but that the overall message was zero tolerance for violence against women. Is that an accurate description?
I have been giving this topic quite a lot of thought during the last couple of weeks, within a broader focus of violence against women. As an activist and writer, I’m concerned with using language that connects with people, and seeking frames that have impact. With this issue, perhaps one useful frame is that of personal stories. Another is that of youth. As I was surfing the intertubes on this topic, I ran across this video on teen dating violence (warning, 13+ minutes long). It was nominated for an Emmy in 2006. While both the linked video and Oprah’s show yesterday focus on both sides of the gender divide, they also both make clear that this issue effects women disproportionately.
I have to wonder as a teacher if this is a useful strategy. When I talk to young people today about feminism, their first response is nearly universally that they aren’t feminists because they want to be humanitarians, and feminism leaves out the other half of the population. We have the raw data on so-called “domestic violence”, and we know that it disproportionately affects women. This is part of our big picture here at The New Agenda–that violence against women is the issue, which includes stranger violence as well as relationship violence. I wonder if that argument isn’t too broad for teens with their limited experience in the world, and if this idea of discussing the issue in a frame that applies specifically to them might generate more political awareness and activism on the issue of violence against women. While I would by no means suggest that we adopt that frame, I wonder what the community thinks of the approach. Opinions? Thoughts?
Anna Belle – I’ve been thinking about this a lot as well.
While getting some coffee in a little shop on my way to work, I heard a radio talk show host talking about the Chris Brown/Rihanna situation. He said that there should be no reason why any man would lay hands on a woman. Period. He said they should both get help and Brown deserves a second chance if he does so, but that making excuses for his behavior is ridiculous.
Too often I see comments along the lines of “the bitch deserved it.” It was so refreshing to hear this man pounding on his theme that nothing Rihanna might have done could make Brown’s behavior acceptable.
If we’re going to frame it, we should go into absolutes: No hitting a woman, ever. Anyone can understand that, even teenagers.
Just my opinion.
I’m with you madamab – there is NO excuse for physical violence!
Kids are very intelligent. I would create a survey and let them help with your teaching by taking the survey. I am older and I am put off by the women against the evil male world mind set. Yes there is too much violence against women and there is just too much violence in the world. I don’t see how you gain by taking violence against women out of the context of too much violence in society and violence as entertainment in society. I also don’t see how you gain with some violent acts being called hate crimes when they are carried out against only certain members of society however do the same violent behavior against a white male and it is no longer hateful? Any one arguing that line loses credibility in my book.
I agree- no excuse. Madamab and Anna Belle, have you seen the article that drudge report linked this morning?
It’s in the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/loc.....r_assault/
really troubling. Boston- the same city where they are planning on holding the assemblies at the public high schools telling girls they are responsible for their boyfriends getting involved in gang violence.
Isn’t there more we can do in Boston?
I think TNA should stick to the issue of violence against women period. To let the media or public opinion try to water down and rationalize why women are abused by domestic violence is one of the reasons why we as women still do not have equal status in this country. TNAshould also take the stand that there is NO excuse for physical violence between men and women. If teenagers think it’s OK because someone “deserves” it – then we have a lot of work to do.
I did watch the Oprah show and I felt that it did not adequately address the fact that women are disproportionately affected by domestic violence. Oprah mentioned that 1 in 3 teenage girls is a victim but she did not specifically say how many more women are victims than men. Also, the show was mostly framed as “how can women prevent or leave this?” rather than “how can men stop doing this?” which is problematic. The ET recap of the events also suggested that Rihanna had done something to provoke Chris, using the phrase “..when Rihanna lashed out and Chris struck back…” Overall, I would say the show was problematic and superficial (absolutely no mention of sexism or misogyny as a factor, a lot of attention paid to Chris Brown’s childhood and inevitability of becoming an abuser) but hopefully it will get some people talking.
What you hear about feminists and feminism Anna Belle needs to be corrected, not gone along with, the idea that feminism only encompasses women. Feminism is for everyone. It’s an idealogy. It is as wrong to say it’s only about or for women as it is to say fighting racism is only about or for persons of colour. However, men should not expect to enter women’s rights orgs and tell women how it’s done, anymore than they would do that with the Black Panthers. (sic). They can espectfully believe in that idealogy, but work on it apart.
Thanks for the report, OK. Hopefully people will discuss it as a result of seeing her cover it.
I understand that point of view, Sis, but I don’t think teenagers can. For myself, I don’t think we can expect them to break their own chains of patriarchy and achieve a wise point of view unless we coach them. I wonder how girls who go through some activism because to be active against teen dating violence is “cool” will be later in life. Will they be more receptive to feminist ideals?
I’m annoyed by the third wave tendency to care about the status of men in this world in relation to women when women clearly are the oppressed party here. Unfortunately, teens generally do not see it that way. They see their entire generation as oppressed because of their status as dependents. I guess what I’m wondering out loud about is how can we prep them so that when they are out of training pool and in the big pool (to use a metaphor) they will be receptive to our ideas immediately. How do we plant seeds?
Kathy, I just want to make clear that we’re not kicking around ideas for TNA, we’re just discussing what other people in the world are doing and trying to evaluate it.
I think they can. Otherwise, there’d be no political activists or teenagers fighting for the environment and race equality until they’re in their 30s. I think what teenagers respect most of all is playing it straight with them. One of the huge things so many of us go through is the disappointment when we find out our parents, teachers, or other adults we respected and honoured lied to us. And I think that’s what we’d be doing; lying to them. Maybe that’s where this third wave came from, the ones who believe they can do whatever they want, as long as they call themselves feminists, that’s feminism.
So how do we reach them, then, Sis? What’s holding them back? How do we turn more of them into that one in 100 or so who is an activist?
I think if we can point out the inequality to teens or young adults, they will begin to see that we are not living in a post-feminist America. We need a way to get the information to them. If we can get them to hear that women make less money, women raise the families on less money and are a majority of the poor, women are on the receiving end of violence and are much less likely to commit violence (many teens believe that women and men commit the same amount of violence), women are not represented in government in equal numbers, women are not represented in the high level positions in business or academia, and that women still do most of the house, family, relationship and general care-taking work that keeps society running (without pay), I think most young women do not want that to be their future. I don’t think they ever hear these things and don’t realize these truths until they are confronted with these situations in their own lives.
One area I do think teens are somewhat aware of the unequal status of women is in media representations of women. They may not realize that the idea of women as sex objects is a sexist one but they do see the unfairness of how much more pressure there is on women to look a certain way vs. how men can be older, fat, balding, etc. and still be considered worthwhile and the main character in TV shows, etc. I think this is a way in with teens to broaden the discussion towards all the rest.
Ok I couldn’t possibly lay it out as well as you have. Thank you. And Anna Belle, I don’t think ‘teaching’ them is as simple as “there I gave you some so you’ve got it now’. Show them, tell them, never back away from what is painful or hard.
I agree with the other posts that there is no excuse for this behaviour. However, you couldn’t pay me to watch Oprah.
Sorry for an incomplete post. I timed out on a public computer.. .
I think they will get your lesson eventually, when their life experience begins to prove it out. I just think Feminist Lite doesn’t work. Won’t work.
Anna belle, I’ve found that teen age boys seem to “get it” better then girls when you ask them if women as a group are oppressed. Many of them can also give you several examples of how and why.
Girls are often trying to take care of everybody and everything, hence the desire to be humanitarians instead of feminists. Girls also have to be in denial about many gender inbalences, just to survive and cope.
I’ve been in many situations where the girls are making excuses for DV and blaming the victims. Sometimes it can be boys who are best at saying, stuff and nonsense, nobody has the right to hit somebody smaller then them, somebody they supposedly care about. We used to ask a question, “when is it okay to hit your girlfriend?” What’s revealing is that many girls would start making a list, when really the only correct answer is “never.”
Chris Brown himself in that 2006 interview left no doubt that he understood the nature of domestic violence and who was responsible for it.
I found some great downloadable fliers over at Heidi Li’s 51 percent site. They would be great left at the local libraries, coffee shops, handed out to your teens to leave at school, etc.
Sorry for being “link woman” today, but here it is:
http://www.fifty-one-percent.o.....ad-central
Teen girls do need to see that women haven’t achieved the level of equality that they have been told that they have. The fliers have lots of these statistics on them. I know it is a drop in the bucket, but you do what you can…
Positive sources for helping to build strong girls and women:
1. http://www.thewhitehouseproject.org/
The White House Project, a 501(c)(3), aims to advance women’s leadership in all communities and sectors—up to the U.S. presidency—by filling the leadership pipeline with a richly diverse, critical mass of women. . . . At The White House Project, we believe that if you add women to the ranks of leadership, you change everything.
2. http://www.swsg.org/about_mission.htm
Strong Women, Strong Girls is an emerging not-for-profit organization that supports the leadership and self-esteem development of women and girls. The mission of Strong Women, Strong Girls is to build upon the lessons learned from strong women throughout history to encourage girls and young women become strong women themselves.
3. http://girlshealth.gov/
GIRL POWER! is paving the way for girls to build confidence, competence, and pride in themselves, in other words, enhancing girls’ mental wellness.
4. http://www.respectrx.com/about.....ct_rx.html
Respect Rx LLC is a social entrepreneurial venture that empowers girls, women and their advocates to respect themselves, create mutual respect in relationships and to spread respect for all.
I think teaching is important, but, I think to give teenagers all the ways in which women are oppressed may overwhelm them. If you tell people, everyone is doing this to women, then they may even think, well if everyone is doing it than it’s okay.
It’s really important that the harsh reality is coupled with really positive stories and role models. I think honestly, I would rather focus on teaching teenagers about the successes of women and the stories of successful women, than focusing on how bad it is.
It’s interesting that the “I want to be a humanitarian” stuff comes up only when discussing feminism. Nobody would respond to someone advocating anti-racism or civil rights for racial minorities by asking “what about the white people?” (well, except perhaps for some white supremacist types). Yet when we discuss feminist ideas with a general audience (i.e., one with no particular feminist consciousness), it’s usually only a matter of time before someone pipes up to inquire, “but what about the men?” I think part of the problem stems from a misunderstanding of what feminism is. Too many people have swallowed the propaganda that feminists want to establish a society where women rule and men are second-class citizens. The word “feminist” probably doesn’t help as it can be interpreted to sound exclusionary and may give some the idea that we’re trying to elevate the female above the male; “gender equality movement” or “fighting gender-based discrimination”, even “women’s equality” and “women’s rights” might work better, though or course this isn’t just a matter of finding the right terminology.
The other part of the problem is harder to get a handle on. I’m reminded of an argument during the primary with an Obama supporter who maintained that racism was worse than sexism because of our history of violence against African Americans. Is it possible that this seemingly educated adult was oblivious to the vast amounts of violence women experience at the hands of men, not just historically but to the present day? While he may not have realized the full extent of said violence, I find it impossible to believe that he wasn’t aware that women are beaten, raped, and killed by men every single day in this country (and indeed worldwide). What I find more plausible is that it had never occurred to him that women are targeted *because* they are women just like African Americans were lynched because of their skin color. My guess is that he thought of violent crimes committed against women by male strangers as not much different than a mugging (i.e., a random, “equal opportunity” crime) and violent crimes committed against women by male relatives/friends/acquaintances as not much different than two buddies having too much to drink and getting into a fight (i.e., an altercation where both parties are partly, if not equally, to blame and probably a “private matter” on top of that).
Similarly, I’ve had discussions with women who’ve assured me that they’ve never felt discriminated against or oppressed because of their gender, only to hear them casually mention a few minutes later that they don’t feel safe going to such-and-such place after dark unless they’re accompanied by their boyfriend or, on another occasion, that so-and-so should have known better than to get a little tipsy at some party and needs to take some responsibility for almost being raped. There’s a real disconnect there. They don’t seem to get that there’s one set of rules for guys and another, far more restrictive not to mention often contradictory, set of rules for girls/women that exists primarily because of the ever present threat of male violence against us. Sadly, even when this is pointed out, the reaction is often, “you’re right, it’s unfair, but that’s just the way it is; there’s nothing we can do about it.” Of course that’s the problem with sexism and misogyny in general: It’s so ubiquitous as to be invisible, and when people do become aware of it, they are often overwhelmed by the magnitude of the problem to the point where they feel powerless to do anything about it.
Sasha, your last paragraph basically nails what I’ve been seeing. It took me a long time to figure out why my own daughter rolled her eyes and fought me on feminism, but I think I did eventually figure it out.
In addition to the cultural attack on feminism from nearly every quarter, which has made feminists the un-coolest people in the world, my daughter is bothered by the futility of my point of view. If what I say is true, in her mind she hasn’t even got a fighting chance and she is powerless (of course that isn’t my lesson, it’s just what she “hears”). It’s this powerlessness that she refuses to accept. And yet, she is. She really is one of the most powerless people in the nation because she is a girl-child.
I think yttk has a point about how boy-children tend to see this more clearly. Is that because we empower boys throughout their lives? I wish I knew what it was, so we could duplicate it for girls. But I do wonder how we can articulate honest points of view that resonate and empower these girls. ERs links look promising. Obviously a knowledge of history is something I think is important. What else can we do?
Now that would be an interesting study I think- find out why exactly young women don’t feel a need to work for women’s equality.
Anna Belle that is a different response you got from your daughter than you would have gotten from me as a young woman going to a private girl’s school. We were required to take classes on feminism and I rolled my eyes and fought it all the way. I felt that the young women who were Women’s Studies majors were whiners who had no other interests. I felt that there was no need for Women’s Studies anymore, that women had equality, and if you felt picked on it was because you just weren’t strong enough. Listening to women’s accomplishments didn’t make me more interested in women as a group. (FYI this was a LONG time ago! over 20 years so please don’t attack me for how stupid I was in my early twenties!)
I didn’t really start caring until all the violence and statistics and first hand observations started piling up in my awareness. Honestly, I didn’t REALLY start caring until the internet came around.
I have mixed feelings about how to teach my children about the inequalities. I want them to be aware of the reality without making them feel terrified or want to give up.
ER, thank you for that great list of web addresses!
Have any of you considered that whatever you tell your daughters at this age will cause them to roll their eyes? It’s not feminism. It’s “mother”.
“yttik writes…I’ve been in many situations where the girls are making excuses for DV and blaming the victims. Sometimes it can be boys who are best at saying, stuff and nonsense, nobody has the right to hit somebody smaller than them, somebody they supposedly care about. We used to ask a question, “when is it okay to hit your girlfriend?” What’s revealing is that many girls would start making a list, when really the only correct answer is “never”. ”
I’m going to go out on a limb here…Needless to say, I agree with the statement above about nobody having the right to hit somebody smaller or weaker than them and somebody that they supposedly care about. I abhor violence against women and believe all people need to be educated about it. The societal message of patriarchal privilege needs to be exposed for what it is and revoked. Laws need to be changed and enforced to protect the victims.
BUT…I think some women consciously or unconsciously allow patriarchal privilege to stand, because, it also gives them the privilege of power over children. Domestic violence also encompasses violence against children and many times women are the perpetrators of this violence. It cannot be okay to decry violence against women and in the next breath defend the “right” to “spank” or use other forms of physical force to discipline children. That causes cognitive dissonance and hence, the defense by some women of the perpetrator of violence against women.
This is by no means meant to minimize violence against women, which is unacceptable, but so is violence against children. We have to recognize and own the ways in which women may perpetuate patriarchal privilege for their own “benefit” and to deal with the ramifications of that.
I am speaking from personal experience. I used physical discipline with my own children until a moment of clarity showed me what it really was…physically violent coercion of someone smaller and less powerful than me and it was wrong. I was no different than the male abuser of women. So I stopped and have been adamant in my disapproval of it’s use ever since. It has made it easier for me to see clearly that the use of violence is destructive to all.
Patriarchal programming runs deep.
Two things.
1) Why boys sometimes understand the problem more clearly than girls. Because it hurts them less? Because they don’t have to acknowledge a mountain of pain and humiliation in their own lives if they let themselves see it? I mean, is this a trick question?
2) Why teenage girls don’t want to know. Do you remember being a teenager? It was all about raging hormones and being admired. You want to reach teenagers, tell them feminists (male or female) are better in bed, have more satisfying relationships, suffer less divorce. There’s the added benefit that those are all true. The stumbling block with heterosexual teenage girls is that they’re afraid of being despised by boys.
You, as a teacher, can do something about that. Laugh at the concept of men who are such jellyfish they can’t deal with real people. (That works better than one might expect, because, after all, the boys are terrified of being despised by girls.)
” It cannot be okay to decry violence against women and in the next breath defend the “right” to “spank” or use other forms of physical force to discipline children. That causes cognitive dissonance and hence, the defense by some women of the perpetrator of violence against women.”
No one in this conversation has defended physically disciplining their kids. I’m puzzled by the whole comment, actually.
Anyway, I didn’t meant to suggest that we bombard teenage girls with the horrors of the patriarchy until they are frightened BUT I do think that the message of “be strong” and “have enough self-esteem to prevent bad things happening to you” is problematic. It puts responsibility on women for others’ actions. If he hits you it’s because you aren’t strong enough or don’t have enough self-esteem, you horrible idiot. I don’t know that that’s helpful.
I got enough of these “empowering” messages growing up (I’m under 30) and they did nothing to help me see why I needed to be strong — because there is a lot of misogyny in this world. I didn’t know that many men feel hatred towards women and that a lot of the ways teenage boys behaved towards me were because they didn’t see me as equal to them. I would make excuses because I assumed they had good intentions or just didn’t know certain things, that they weren’t very socially adept, or didn’t know how to deal with their feelings (so I became responsible for helping them). I didn’t want to believe it was malicious.
So I think we need to help girls feel good about themselves for being good people (and the same with boys) and modeling that strength is a good quality for women, while also attempting to educate them on women’s history and what systemic oppression (in all its forms) and sexism actually are. We have to give them the tools to see and talk about and validate their experiences with sexism. We can’t keep pretending like discrimination and violence based on sex is somehow different than other kinds of discrimination and violence.
Do we tell gay and lesbian people or black people or disabled people that if only they had enough self-esteem people would stop hating them?
Also, I want to ask, how can you respect yourself in the face of a society that says everything about you is bad? Male qualities are good because a male has them and the only good woman is the 20 year-old, white, blonde haired, blue eyed, 20 inch waisted, silent, sexy-virgin, who’s a whiz in the kitchen and also rich (Kelly Rippa in those GE commercials, anyone?), so that’s what young women strive to be, and then they don’t live up to it and feel bad about themselves and figure no one could ever actually love them because they aren’t a supermodel. That has to change in society before we can change it in young women.
Wow, some thought-provoking comments. Thanks for the dialogue.
Sorry, Sis, I do not accept that it’s just “mother.” We see eye to eye on plenty and have an excellent relationship. She’s politically active with me on a number of issues. That and my experience with other young girls, as well as my experience as a teen girl myself, let me know that this is a phenomenon worth working on. There’s a way, and I’m making it my business to find it.
Yeah, I agree that feminism is not seen as anywhere near being “cool”. I think that’s partly because feminists aren’t really in charge of their branding. There are a lot of voices saying feminism is crazy who get the airtime.
I didn’t mean to suggest that anyone in this conversation was defending physical discipline of children. I meant only to give a possible explanation for why some women defend the male perpetrator of domestic violence. In doing so they defend their own use of physical violence against those smaller and less powerful than them. Which in turn teaches that the use of physical violence is an acceptable behavior. Just pointing out the vicious cycle that ensues and why it is so important that we be clear about the message that violence is unacceptable no matter who is the recipient.
Sasha, fantastic comment.
Anna Belle – who is the male CNN anchor quoted as saying he wished this topic would “go away”?
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