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	<title>Comments on: Women&#8217;s rights and culture</title>
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		<title>By: The New Feminism: Breaking the Multicultural Relativism Taboo : The New Agenda</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11954</link>
		<dc:creator>The New Feminism: Breaking the Multicultural Relativism Taboo : The New Agenda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11954</guid>
		<description>[...] is one of the principles drilled into social scientists and ethnographers—with good reason. As Violet Socks writes in her February 19 TNA post, &#8220;We can&#8217;t stop honor killings unless we know why [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is one of the principles drilled into social scientists and ethnographers—with good reason. As Violet Socks writes in her February 19 TNA post, &#8220;We can&#8217;t stop honor killings unless we know why [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11545</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you Justis, for you well worded comment.

As I posted earlier, my daughter had to leave a well paying job she had been at for several years in order to move away from her husband, to a place of relative safety.  (He won&#039;t drive 5 hours to beat up my daughter, after all, there are plenty of women to beat up without his going to the trouble.)

My point is, the violence did affect her ability to earn a living and is just as relevant as if she were not getting equal pay.

Almost every single woman I know has either been slapped, punched, shoved, threatened with a fist or gun, or been yanked by their hair at least once in their life by a man they were involved with or on a date with.  If this was a disease this number would be considered an epidemic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Justis, for you well worded comment.</p>
<p>As I posted earlier, my daughter had to leave a well paying job she had been at for several years in order to move away from her husband, to a place of relative safety.  (He won&#8217;t drive 5 hours to beat up my daughter, after all, there are plenty of women to beat up without his going to the trouble.)</p>
<p>My point is, the violence did affect her ability to earn a living and is just as relevant as if she were not getting equal pay.</p>
<p>Almost every single woman I know has either been slapped, punched, shoved, threatened with a fist or gun, or been yanked by their hair at least once in their life by a man they were involved with or on a date with.  If this was a disease this number would be considered an epidemic.</p>
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		<title>By: The Debate Over Aasiya&#8217;s Murder &#171; GOATMILK: An intellectual playground edited by Wajahat Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11544</link>
		<dc:creator>The Debate Over Aasiya&#8217;s Murder &#171; GOATMILK: An intellectual playground edited by Wajahat Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] diversity, particularly with regard to Islam. As Violet Socks, co-founder of The New Agenda, wrote earlier this week: “For many commenters on the web, it is apparently impossible to condemn this nightmare without [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] diversity, particularly with regard to Islam. As Violet Socks, co-founder of The New Agenda, wrote earlier this week: “For many commenters on the web, it is apparently impossible to condemn this nightmare without [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ER</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11533</link>
		<dc:creator>ER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11533</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think women are hard-wired to be victims. When the are the victims of out of control men, here&#039;s what happens:

SCIENTIFIC  EVIDENCE THAT VIOLENCE MUST BE PREVENTED AND TAKEN SERIOUSLY:

A new study shows that traumatic childhood experiences such as child abuse can alter the structure and function of genes that control stress, which could increase the risk of suicide in adult survivors. This study, from McGill University, is the first to show a link between psychological trauma and genetic function in humans.  This work supports earlier studies showing abuse can alter DNA function.  They also found that these genetic changes occur in adults.

Quoting from one article: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;It suggests that experience in childhood when the brain is developing, can have a long-term impact on how someone responds to stressful situations.

But study leader Professor Michael Meaney said they believe these biochemical effects could also occur later in life.

&quot;If you&#039;re a public health individual or a child psychologist you could say this shows you nothing you didn&#039;t already know.

&quot;But until you show the biological process, many people in government and policy-makers are reluctant to believe it&#039;s real. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7901337.stm&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Another quote: &lt;blockquote&gt;”But they also found that these epigenetic marks can be changed in adulthood with treatments that change the DNA coating: the treatment is called DNA methylation and it reverses the change to the stress response.”
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/139938.php&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The original article citation: &quot;Epigenetic regulation of the glucocorticoid receptor in human brain associates with childhood abuse.&quot; Patrick O McGowan, Aya Sasaki, Ana C D&#039;Alessio, Sergiy Dymov, Benoit Labonté, Moshe Szyf, Gustavo Turecki &amp; Michael J Meaney. Nature Neuroscience Published online: 22 February 2009. doi:10.1038/nn.2270

I’m posting this as it gives us more ammunition in our fight (and press releases) regarding violence against women (and children and men).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think women are hard-wired to be victims. When the are the victims of out of control men, here&#8217;s what happens:</p>
<p>SCIENTIFIC  EVIDENCE THAT VIOLENCE MUST BE PREVENTED AND TAKEN SERIOUSLY:</p>
<p>A new study shows that traumatic childhood experiences such as child abuse can alter the structure and function of genes that control stress, which could increase the risk of suicide in adult survivors. This study, from McGill University, is the first to show a link between psychological trauma and genetic function in humans.  This work supports earlier studies showing abuse can alter DNA function.  They also found that these genetic changes occur in adults.</p>
<p>Quoting from one article: </p>
<blockquote><p>It suggests that experience in childhood when the brain is developing, can have a long-term impact on how someone responds to stressful situations.</p>
<p>But study leader Professor Michael Meaney said they believe these biochemical effects could also occur later in life.</p>
<p>&#8220;If you&#8217;re a public health individual or a child psychologist you could say this shows you nothing you didn&#8217;t already know.</p>
<p>&#8220;But until you show the biological process, many people in government and policy-makers are reluctant to believe it&#8217;s real. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7901337.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7901337.stm</a></p></blockquote>
<p>Another quote:<br />
<blockquote>”But they also found that these epigenetic marks can be changed in adulthood with treatments that change the DNA coating: the treatment is called DNA methylation and it reverses the change to the stress response.”<br />
<a href="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/139938.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.medicalnewstoday.co.....139938.php</a></p></blockquote>
<p>The original article citation: &#8220;Epigenetic regulation of the glucocorticoid receptor in human brain associates with childhood abuse.&#8221; Patrick O McGowan, Aya Sasaki, Ana C D&#8217;Alessio, Sergiy Dymov, Benoit Labonté, Moshe Szyf, Gustavo Turecki &amp; Michael J Meaney. Nature Neuroscience Published online: 22 February 2009. doi:10.1038/nn.2270</p>
<p>I’m posting this as it gives us more ammunition in our fight (and press releases) regarding violence against women (and children and men).</p>
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		<title>By: Beheading Getting Attention For the Wrong Reasons &#171; Battered Moms Lose Children to Abusers</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11451</link>
		<dc:creator>Beheading Getting Attention For the Wrong Reasons &#171; Battered Moms Lose Children to Abusers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11451</guid>
		<description>[...] Women’s rights and culture [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Women’s rights and culture [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Justis</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11449</link>
		<dc:creator>Justis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11449</guid>
		<description>In response to Constance who wrote this:

So you feel it is likely that the first time she was abused was this time when she was murdered by being beheaded? But really I am referring to the way some women are experiencing outrage, a very strong emotion, by vicariously living Aasiya’s ultimate horror over and over. And I am wondering why this sort of thing is so prevalent in feminist groups and if all that angst and outrage is actually helpful to abused women. Because male/ female relationships in general are not accurately represented by the most outrageous behavior of the most disturbed people. And yet there are real disadvantages that average women face daily like not being represented by their government, making only 78% what a man makes for the same job and media images of women. 

So for me I think it is time to put away the outrage at this extremely aberrant behavior and work on issues that can really make a difference to all women. And perhaps that is a split that needs to happen for women to move forward. “feminists” should consider dividing into two groups, those who categorize and identify with victims of extreme horror and those who identify the most pressing problems to Jenny Average and want to work to eliminate or improve them.
____________

Response:


There needs to be outrage over this issue. Women are killed every day under similar circumstances. It&#039;s an epidemic that needs to be stopped.

Even if you are not involved with a man, you could be a random victim. If you, Constance, were attacked by a man who tried to murder you, and say you recovered, would you want some other women saying, let&#039;s not deal with this issue, it doesn&#039;t help everyone. Any woman could be the target of gender specific violence just by walking down the street.

Try to put yourself in the place of the women killed. Outrage is necessary, as this is gender specific violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Constance who wrote this:</p>
<p>So you feel it is likely that the first time she was abused was this time when she was murdered by being beheaded? But really I am referring to the way some women are experiencing outrage, a very strong emotion, by vicariously living Aasiya’s ultimate horror over and over. And I am wondering why this sort of thing is so prevalent in feminist groups and if all that angst and outrage is actually helpful to abused women. Because male/ female relationships in general are not accurately represented by the most outrageous behavior of the most disturbed people. And yet there are real disadvantages that average women face daily like not being represented by their government, making only 78% what a man makes for the same job and media images of women. </p>
<p>So for me I think it is time to put away the outrage at this extremely aberrant behavior and work on issues that can really make a difference to all women. And perhaps that is a split that needs to happen for women to move forward. “feminists” should consider dividing into two groups, those who categorize and identify with victims of extreme horror and those who identify the most pressing problems to Jenny Average and want to work to eliminate or improve them.<br />
____________</p>
<p>Response:</p>
<p>There needs to be outrage over this issue. Women are killed every day under similar circumstances. It&#8217;s an epidemic that needs to be stopped.</p>
<p>Even if you are not involved with a man, you could be a random victim. If you, Constance, were attacked by a man who tried to murder you, and say you recovered, would you want some other women saying, let&#8217;s not deal with this issue, it doesn&#8217;t help everyone. Any woman could be the target of gender specific violence just by walking down the street.</p>
<p>Try to put yourself in the place of the women killed. Outrage is necessary, as this is gender specific violence.</p>
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		<title>By: Justis</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11448</link>
		<dc:creator>Justis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11448</guid>
		<description>When society stops treating women and children (especially children) as property of the man, there might be some headway into stopping the violence. If a women could leave WITH HER CHILDREN and get immediate protection, just like a witness protection program, then most of this would be eliminated. Men would know that women and children would leave if they mistreated them, so it would be a deterrent.

In this case, if she could have gone somewhere with her kids and left him, then she would be safe now. The piece of paper restraining order did not allow her to leave with her children. Instead she was bound to the area and her abuser by the court system.

Domestic abuse needs to be taken out of family court, and be treated in criminal court - family court is a kangaroo court where 
abuse is not taken seriously. Women are seen as vindictive and many men deny that abuse of the wife or children is real and claim it is a legal tactic.

Women are frequently re-victimized in court. They are called liars, their children are called liars. When attempting to leave an abusive man, children are forced to visit with them alone and women risk losing their life, their children’s lives, and even if no one gets killed, the mom risks losing custody. 

Lawyers and bottomfeeder psychologists terrorize women and children, sometimes leading to death because the women is not listened to. The court ordered “evlauations” need to be removed - they rip people off for thousands of dollars and never find anything wrong with the dad. If the mom complains about abuse, she could lose her children and be declared an “alienator”. Any man with money can re-victimize the mother of his children in court until the children are 18 years old, and many do. This is another form of abuse - Maternal Deprivation - that needs to be stopped. In this case the Maternal Deprivation Abuse has made the children Motherless! 

This is why so many women are not leaving the abusive situations. Since abusive men fight for custody of children, and women no longer get sole custody, they are forced to continue to interact with the abuser. As a result, these deaths occur with alarming frequecy and will continue to do so. 

I hope that this case does not bring focus on the type of death or Muslim religion, as women of all religions, races, ethnic origins, and economic statuses can be victims of domestic violence. The US has many cases of revenge killings, they just don&#039;t call them &quot;honor killings&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When society stops treating women and children (especially children) as property of the man, there might be some headway into stopping the violence. If a women could leave WITH HER CHILDREN and get immediate protection, just like a witness protection program, then most of this would be eliminated. Men would know that women and children would leave if they mistreated them, so it would be a deterrent.</p>
<p>In this case, if she could have gone somewhere with her kids and left him, then she would be safe now. The piece of paper restraining order did not allow her to leave with her children. Instead she was bound to the area and her abuser by the court system.</p>
<p>Domestic abuse needs to be taken out of family court, and be treated in criminal court &#8211; family court is a kangaroo court where<br />
abuse is not taken seriously. Women are seen as vindictive and many men deny that abuse of the wife or children is real and claim it is a legal tactic.</p>
<p>Women are frequently re-victimized in court. They are called liars, their children are called liars. When attempting to leave an abusive man, children are forced to visit with them alone and women risk losing their life, their children’s lives, and even if no one gets killed, the mom risks losing custody. </p>
<p>Lawyers and bottomfeeder psychologists terrorize women and children, sometimes leading to death because the women is not listened to. The court ordered “evlauations” need to be removed &#8211; they rip people off for thousands of dollars and never find anything wrong with the dad. If the mom complains about abuse, she could lose her children and be declared an “alienator”. Any man with money can re-victimize the mother of his children in court until the children are 18 years old, and many do. This is another form of abuse &#8211; Maternal Deprivation &#8211; that needs to be stopped. In this case the Maternal Deprivation Abuse has made the children Motherless! </p>
<p>This is why so many women are not leaving the abusive situations. Since abusive men fight for custody of children, and women no longer get sole custody, they are forced to continue to interact with the abuser. As a result, these deaths occur with alarming frequecy and will continue to do so. </p>
<p>I hope that this case does not bring focus on the type of death or Muslim religion, as women of all religions, races, ethnic origins, and economic statuses can be victims of domestic violence. The US has many cases of revenge killings, they just don&#8217;t call them &#8220;honor killings&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11429</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11429</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with you Loralee

This is also the kind of thing in my daughter&#039;s case I could not understand.  Her husband shot through the ceiling of his mother&#039;s house then threatened to shoot himself and his mother and my daughter.  My daughter called the police and they came and talked the gun away from him and put him in a mental ward for two days.  She took the children and went to a friend&#039;s -- and took the gun with her so that when he came back home he could not get it.

A week later she got a call from the police telling her she had to return the gun to her husband because IT WAS HIS PROPERTY.  She explained why she took it and they said she did not have the RIGHT to withhold the gun from him.  She took the gun to the police to return to him, then she moved where I live, which is about a 5 hour drive.  The distance has done the trick, but she had to give up a good job.  She also can&#039;t get a divorce from him because she doesn&#039;t have the money to hire a lawyer, and can&#039;t get legal assistance because she is now out of jurisdiction.  It has been four years now and she can&#039;t divorce him or get child support.

How can someone so obviously dangerous to himself and others be permitted to own a gun?  Shouldn&#039;t at least his permit be revoked?

These are the legal issues I just don&#039;t understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with you Loralee</p>
<p>This is also the kind of thing in my daughter&#8217;s case I could not understand.  Her husband shot through the ceiling of his mother&#8217;s house then threatened to shoot himself and his mother and my daughter.  My daughter called the police and they came and talked the gun away from him and put him in a mental ward for two days.  She took the children and went to a friend&#8217;s &#8212; and took the gun with her so that when he came back home he could not get it.</p>
<p>A week later she got a call from the police telling her she had to return the gun to her husband because IT WAS HIS PROPERTY.  She explained why she took it and they said she did not have the RIGHT to withhold the gun from him.  She took the gun to the police to return to him, then she moved where I live, which is about a 5 hour drive.  The distance has done the trick, but she had to give up a good job.  She also can&#8217;t get a divorce from him because she doesn&#8217;t have the money to hire a lawyer, and can&#8217;t get legal assistance because she is now out of jurisdiction.  It has been four years now and she can&#8217;t divorce him or get child support.</p>
<p>How can someone so obviously dangerous to himself and others be permitted to own a gun?  Shouldn&#8217;t at least his permit be revoked?</p>
<p>These are the legal issues I just don&#8217;t understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Loralee Bullen</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11426</link>
		<dc:creator>Loralee Bullen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11426</guid>
		<description>&quot;domestic violence&quot; murder in Denver: Amber Kathleen Cremeens was murdered in Denver by an ex boyfriend who ran her off the road and proceeded to shoot her three times at point blank range. She did not have a restraining order (according to the media) but she did move to avoid him and even had her utilities in her new boyfriends name so that he could not find her. It sounds like this girls was an amazing athlete growing up and well respected in her profession. The guy who did this held tow people at gunpoint in 1997 where he threatened to kill the girl and in 2000 had an emergency order of protection placed against him by another girlfriend.

My question is this; how does someone like this who threatens and acts on violence stay out of jail? When someone takes a gun and threatens someone, shouldn&#039;t that person go to jail for a very long time? Reports say that this girl dated her murderer for 8 years. If that is the case, they started dating right after the other girl had the protection order placed against him. 

There are 911 tapes made public of the girls current boyfriend calling 911 on one phone and her on the other while this happened. I couldn&#039;t listen to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;domestic violence&#8221; murder in Denver: Amber Kathleen Cremeens was murdered in Denver by an ex boyfriend who ran her off the road and proceeded to shoot her three times at point blank range. She did not have a restraining order (according to the media) but she did move to avoid him and even had her utilities in her new boyfriends name so that he could not find her. It sounds like this girls was an amazing athlete growing up and well respected in her profession. The guy who did this held tow people at gunpoint in 1997 where he threatened to kill the girl and in 2000 had an emergency order of protection placed against him by another girlfriend.</p>
<p>My question is this; how does someone like this who threatens and acts on violence stay out of jail? When someone takes a gun and threatens someone, shouldn&#8217;t that person go to jail for a very long time? Reports say that this girl dated her murderer for 8 years. If that is the case, they started dating right after the other girl had the protection order placed against him. </p>
<p>There are 911 tapes made public of the girls current boyfriend calling 911 on one phone and her on the other while this happened. I couldn&#8217;t listen to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.thenewagenda.net/2009/02/19/womens-rights-and-culture/comment-page-2/#comment-11425</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thenewagenda.net/?p=5553#comment-11425</guid>
		<description>Anne-Marie
If you read my earlier post you know I would never have dreamed my daughter would stand for abuse, based on what I believe and the way she was taught.  I do, however, think your idea of the women taking responsibility is a part of it.  We need to be diligent in teaching our daughters and supporting our friends.  Don&#039;t be so starry eyed with your best friend when she gets that engagement ring from a guy who is a jerk.   Preventative measures certainly trumps all else.

From a legal aspect, I would like to see qualified mediators/counselors within the legal system.  No matter how many times my daughter heard it from me, it took counseling to help her regain her sense of personal worth.  In an abuse situation both parties could benefit from counseling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne-Marie<br />
If you read my earlier post you know I would never have dreamed my daughter would stand for abuse, based on what I believe and the way she was taught.  I do, however, think your idea of the women taking responsibility is a part of it.  We need to be diligent in teaching our daughters and supporting our friends.  Don&#8217;t be so starry eyed with your best friend when she gets that engagement ring from a guy who is a jerk.   Preventative measures certainly trumps all else.</p>
<p>From a legal aspect, I would like to see qualified mediators/counselors within the legal system.  No matter how many times my daughter heard it from me, it took counseling to help her regain her sense of personal worth.  In an abuse situation both parties could benefit from counseling.</p>
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