Rosa Clemente on Ophelia
January 25, 2009
by The New Agenda
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For me its not only about holding Obama, the House of Representatives, or the United States Senate accountable. Holding public officials accountable is important, but building a multi-racial social justice movement is a necessity for our very existence.
Ophelia is thrilled to be hosting Rosa Clemente, VP candidate for the Green Party in 2008, as well as Jenn Lee, co-founder of TNA. Join us for an exciting discussion on promoting women in politics.
Rosa Clemente ran for Vice-President with Cynthia Mckinney on the Green Party ticket. They were the first women of color ticket in American history, and were, according to Clemente, “whited out not only in mainstream media but feminist and progressive media outlets and conversations as well.”
Ophelia is looking forward to a lively and illuminating discussion with Rosa and Jenn.
Spread the world: click on the “Share This” icon below and let others know about the show.
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This should be very interesting. Were they even invited onto one single popular news show during their campaign? It was ridiculous what little coverage they got. Even the very unconventional Ron Paul received a ton of coverage. Why not for these two women? Can’t wait to listen to this.
Yeah, I’m looking forward to this one, too Ali.
I’ll be tuning in. And forwarding same to friends. We have to build the excitement of working toward proportional representation – 83 senators today legislate for over 150 million women. With that supermajority in place, it’s no wonder that we are where we are! Parity isn’t enough – women need to embrace the importance of having 51% of the elected positions filled by women period. Women need to feel sickened by the fact that we go into a recession earning 23% less then men – and that some of us, our Black sisters, make 34% less than men. It’s the old, Fred and Ginger routine as Ann Richards said: She’s doing it backwards and in heels.
WOW Amy,
Listening to the radio show with Rosa Clemente was just infuriating. The contempt and misconceptions she spewed about white women was astonishing and very offensive. I was shocked how she kept referring to hip hop and white women’s privilege. First of all, white women have ALWAYS worked in this country too, to say otherwise is a LIE!!!!! And less than 5% ever had servants. As a matter of FACT, most of the poor people in this country are WHITE women. I was SOOOOOO offended by her RACIST stereotypes.
At some point, people like her have to meet white women part way. You can reach out, but getting spat in the face when you do is no way to find common ground.
And it surprised me how her focus was more on police brutality against men of color than the fact that there is a rape in this country every 6 minutes and 4 women a day are murdered by men of ALL colors. The truth is that rapes and murders are pretty much intraracial!!! Men of color are beating, raping and killing women of color at that same rate white men are to white women. THIS ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT RACE, ITS ABOUT GENDER!!!!!!
Why is it that when white women talk about this stuff they are accused of not being inclusive? Its just bull shit!!
If I had known how racist she was, I never would have voted for her. As for her comments about Hillary Clinton, again I found them offensive. Clinton’s policies were the most class conscious of anyone’s in this election. Furthermore, Clinton always addressed the issues endemic to women of color, particularly regarding HIV/AIDS. Clinton went to the Black State of the Union and reached out, when Obama didn’t, and I don’t remember Clemente being there either, but I could be mistaken.
She seems to be completely defined by the issues and experiences of man of color, without giving voice to the issues of women of any color. The only thing I could agree with her about was that the leading cause of death of black women between the ages of 18 through 35 in this country is HIV/IADS. It is a huge problem and the primary transmission of the disease is through intraracial heterosexual contact, meaning that it is men of color who are transmitting the virus to women of color. Of course white women need to be supportive of this issue and work with women of color to reduce this epidemic. What I heard was an anger toward white women, like it is their fault. She expressed no culpability on the part of men of color for hardly anything. I didn’t hear her address any issues that effect women of color that weren’t tied into the plight of men of color. Its too bad that women like her aren’t tracking the body count of women of color who are misogynistically murdered by men (of color). I suppose that’s the white women’s fault too.
I would like to inform her that men of color earn more money in this society than do white women. I would also contend that all men have privilege over all women. It is sad that women like her find it perfectly acceptable that men of color have privilege over them, but instead attack white women as if they are the culprits of all their oppression. This past election cycle was a glaring example of male privilege trumping race. I just could not believe her level of ignorance about the issues and the facts!!!! No wonder she wasn’t taken seriously. and couldn’t get much coverage. My vote would have been better served going to Palin.
I totally agree with you, KendallJ. I’m disgusted and regret my vote as well.
P.S. Clemente’s fixation on white women as the oppressor is reflective also of so many problems the feminist movement has with women of color also, by the way. Contrary to popular opinion, feminism is not an exclusive white woman’s movement – this is a myth that has been perpetuated by men of color since the civil rights movement as a means to manipulate WOC into staying out of feminism. As you can see, it still works very well.
White women would do well to make sure they aren’t manipulated by these false accusations and this false stereotyping also, by the way…again, it’s a racist and misogynist propoganda tactic constructed by men of color. Don’t let it influence the feminist movement, whatever you do. We had about enough of that this election cycle. There are plenty of women of color who are behind you, who need feminism to be focused and strong, and are equally disgusted by relentless race baiting in feminism and the refusal of WOC to hold men of color directly accountable for their abuse.
Nina,
Great comments!! I was so pissed off at Clemente’s ignorance and her willingness to overlook the culpability of MOC in their misogyny that I wanted to ask her if she ever heard the color purple. Since women’s history hasn’t been told in this country the lies about white women not working are allowed to persist. Apparently, Clemente is so ignorant that she has no knowledge of the sweat shops in the 18 and early 1900′s where immigrant white women filled factories all over the large cities in this country, Many were children who worked in sewing factories for 16 hours days and lived in rat holes without the most basic human rights. Others in rural parts of the country worked unpaid on farms and in male owned small family businesses without pay.
White women have to stop bending over backwards to kiss the asses of women like Clemente who is so ignorant that she should not be regarded as anyone to take seriously. I am surprised that the green party didn’t vet her better before putting her on the ticket.
I think that if women new the REAL history of this country, it would break a great deal of barriers between white women and WOC. But MOC as well as White men, deliberately like to use these lies to divide us and redirect our anger and energy against each other, rather than placing it at the feet of ALL men for their misogyny.
It’s conclusive! White women are hated by EVERYONE. And why is it that when people talk about the privilege of white women we are all rich and have nannies? Most white women in the United States do not live this lifestyle. I can hardy afford a babysitter for a couple of hours let alone a nanny.
I listened to most of the interview and then had a problem with my computer. Did she hold men (white, black or blue) accountable for ANYTHING? Or were white women the main culprit?
I’m glad that I DID NOT vote for her! I was considering it. I liked the idea of voting for a progressive female ticket. But reconsidered because I just didn’t feel like I had a firm grasp on what they were about.
That being said…. women of color deal with misogyny AND racism. (More caps, sorry). Some of these issues white women also deal with, some not. It is important to have the conversation. Sorry that Rosa does not yet have the community outreach skills to encourage dialogue on this topic with white women. I know I want this conversation, this dialogue. And as Amy said during the interview, it would be nice to be able to galvanize around the things that we do have in common which are plenty.
Men of color do not earn more money than white women, unless you are referring to Asian men. Both black and Hispanic/Latino men earn less than white women. My source is the Department of Labor report for 2007 found at http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2007.pdf.
The relevant table is on page 4.
Again, here is the money trump card. White women do not deserve serious consideration in regard to sexism because (some) white women have money.
The way Rosa complained about white women and their nannies was purely hateful. Her message was embarrassing.
CLR,
I stand corrected! I haven’t checked these stats in a few years, and mistakingly assumed things were the same.
Yeah, the economic thing is complicated when comparing white women and MOC, and I’m sure most of Amy’s readership would disagree with my analysis of that one. I actually don’t subscribe to the belief that the current economic situation of many men of color is related to racism or even classism. But most people think this is the case, and that’s why there is a big platform for the idea that MOC must be suffering from crippling racism/classism and that’s why so many are doing poorly economically, (and as a derivative of that, involved in high crime). It’s much more complicated than that actually and has very little to do with racism.
Anyway, I know most people don’t see it that way unless they’ve looked into some of the excellent (and of course, well-buried) scholarship that is out there. But let’s put it this way – women, no matter what their color, are by far the most non-violent, peaceful people in the world, and are therefore victims of the most undeniably unprovoked violence in the world. That’s what it really means to be a victim and to be oppressed in the most extreme sense. And anyone who tries to play oppression Olympics with that (like Clemente and the majority of social activists who echo her same complaints about feminism) are the ones who are not thinking clearly. It’s a shame actually, because this foggy thinking on the part of our culture is partly what helps to keep the solid, relentless oppression of women in tact.
Hi my name is rosa clemente
and I was happy to be invited on the new agenda show, Mondays with Ophelia
I am not surprised by the responses, the venom, cursing and outright contempt, but not surprised, i think that none of you know what you are talking about as it regards me, in fact i know you dont, you dont know me, and 27 minutes on a radio does not make you understand me, first of all much of what i tried to say and explain i was cut off over and over, as someone who has been involved in social justice for over 15 years, all my work has been across racial lines, maybe many of you as educated women should read works from white women on the issue of white privilege. as i said on the show i have a family that racially is half white over 50 cousins, that are mostly half irish/german and Puerto rican, many have chosen to identify as white because of the racism endured by Puerto Ricans growing up in the 50′s and 60′s, in youngstown ohio, so when all you listen to is a sound-byte, and i am not fully allowed to explain my thought then you will be reactionary, as all of you have been, maybe part of that is because what i say may strike a nerve, it obviously did with the way you have all approached a different view, as a survivor of incest and rape, like many of you, i am aware of the statistics of rape and incest, and i am also aware of patriarchy in america, but for you to all discount our race as women of color, is the very reason an organization like this, and one that seeks to shut down voices, one that says all women are entitled to a voice, unless we do not like it, is the very reason that these organizations, will not attract certain groups of women, and i just do not mean women of color, i mean the majority of working class women in this country across color lines, i only respond, because i will not be attacked if i feel there is a way for me to respond in a cordial fashion, i do not need anyone to “kiss my ass” you gotta be kidding me, i encourage you to maybe read about white women who at least understand a race politic, there are many out there, penny hess, jennifer calderon, wendy day, amy goodman, laura flanders, sally ‘ briendana kaplan, laura whtiehorn, media benjamin, Marilynn buck, bernadine dohrn, and the list goes on, i am happy to know that for almost twenty years i have dedicated my life to social justice and will do for the rest of my life, no matter what a small group of white women will say about me as a women of color, material like what was written about me reenforces why so many of us will not join groups like this, the funny thing is, a majority white party, the greens, choose to women of color to lead their ticket, what i said on the radio show is nothing new, therefore there are a lot of white women out there who have heard me say this before and voted for me, what does that say about them, and lastly the new agenda supports a women for senator, who wants to deport immigrants, break up families, and provide no pathway to citizenship, so if a women is against something that is fundamental to the humanity of a person, do we just support, i mean do you guys support condelezza rice, because she is a women, i do not support her just becaeu she is black, that is called having an analysis, i do not fight for one half of the population,i fight for social justice, just because you have a vagina does not make you my friend, the same thing we say in hip hop, every brother and sister aint a brother or sister, which i think makes me more equipped to deal with issues of race, class and gender than many, at the end of the day i like to read what people say, good bad ugly and as it is written publicly it makes good pages for my book, thanks for the material
Rosa
I did not hear the show. However, your post has intrigued me….What would you suggest an organization like TNA do to be more appealing to women of color or working class women?
The issues here seem so complex.
And, I hate when things devolve into some sort of hierarchy of oppression. The way I see it, it serves no one.
And, just to add a bit more complexity into the dialogue, I didn’t vote for the Green Party tix this year, nor in past years because I have felt that the candidates views toward Middle East, and Israel, in particular, were not favorable to Jews.
To make a very broad generalization, it seems, we get divided up into, or divide ourselves up into, various demographic groups, some of which overlap. I have observed that the broad cry of social justice often winds up with many a road block as we bump up against our own particular issues and sympathies.
It’s hard.
I look forward to another post from you that might further illuminate your perspective on how a women’s rights organization can be inclusive. Also, I wonder if you think that such a thing is virtually impossible since, once a very wide net is thrown out, there are bound to be conflicts of interest, no?
[...] another front, the sleaze on Chris Matthew’s show continues. Thank you to our friend Rosa Clemente for forwarding us this “Exhibit A” of utter disrespect for a woman (see Anne [...]
Dear Anna
all i am saying is that women of color can not be separated from our race, thats it, that women of color suffer from racial oppression white women do not, thats just a fact, with that fact that does not mean that i do not understand white women, and how race has been constructed in this society, just as i feel there are millions of white women who do not negate the fact that race is an issue that they do not face, i am proud that the Green Party has chosen to side on the side of the Palestinian people, there are many Jewish people that do not subscribe to the ideology of zionism, within the state of israel and witting the border of the untied states, i have never been excused of being divisive and i know you are not saying that, but there is something that is said in the black freedom struggle, UNITY without UNIFORMITY, i.e. there are common things that we as all women can fight for, but as a black Puerto rican women there are also things that must fight about within my own ethnic group, and not at the expense of others, i really think much of this can be solved with education, dialogue and understanding the history of women of color in this country, i mean many people do not realize that the first drafting of NOW memberships forbade women of color from achieving g leadership, and that is why the Combahee Black Women’s Collective was started in the 60′s, and the women of the Young Lords Party in 1969, challenged mainly puerto Rican men for their machismo, or that the Em-mitt Till story carry heavy within the African American community to this day, that LGBT folks of color, do not see there struggle as only a struggle for marriage rights, the fact that many women i know within hip hop politics do not subscribe to feminism, as much as we subscribe to the ideology of WOMANISM given to us by Alice Walker, I am not a person that shy’s away from any type of dialogue, thats what women do we fight but not with guns
i recommned the book This Bridge Called My Back: Writings by Radical Women of Color: Cherrie Moraga, Gloria Anzaldua: Books, its a classic in many womens studies department,
I dont care what people say about my ideas, i care when we attack each other, so i think what you post is critical and i thank you for it, i hope all this begins a broader dialogue
Rosa
Thanks for answering my post.
“all i am saying is that women of color can not be separated from our race, thats it, that women of color suffer from racial oppression white women do not.”
I don’t know how anyone could possibly refute that.
“i am proud that the Green Party has chosen to side on the side of the Palestinian people.”
I would say this is a point where we can agree to disagree, and likely the TNA blog isn’t the place to get into it in depth, anyway (not that I care to as I believe there are some issues that are simply divisive in that the feelings on both ‘sides’ are so strong there is usually very little movement, despite attempts at dialogue).
“there are common things that we as all women can fight for, but as a black Puerto rican women there are also things that must fight about within my own ethnic group, and not at the expense of others.”
I understand your first point. That is one of several reasons I think things get so complex, something I noted in my initial post – because we are members of multiple “groups”, and some of those alliances may be strong, while others overlap in ways where there is division. I just think that’s the nature of it. I doubt there could ever be some perfect union. Humans are just too complex, the world is too complex, passions run high, the stakes are so great, there is our personal history, human history, etc. all bearing down…
“many people do not realize that the first drafting of NOW memberships forbade women of color from achieving g leadership.”
I do agree that the feminist movement has not, for the most part, been a unified movement among whites and people of color. Just as so much of what occured in the tumultuous 1970′s was divided along color lines (as white college students did drugs for fun, so many blacks in Harlem were dying from heroine overdoses).
“within hip hop politics”
I have no idea what hip hop politics is.
What are key differences between how you define feminism and Alice Walker’s vision of womanism?
Thanks for the book recommendation.
And, again, how do you think TNA can evolve to be more inclusive, or do you see the question as moot?
Not all of us are white, by the way. We’re just tired of white women being blamed for everything when they really are the least of our problems. They’re not as privileged as we think anymore…I know this is hard to imagine, because we have bought into that narrative for so long, but I believe it is true. I think this also might reflect a generational difference in perceptions of race vs. gender that are rapidly changing, and that we’re going to be seeing a lot more dissent on this issue in the future. Sorry the discussion became heated…I don’t know about anyone else, but I was infuriated by the race baiting that went on during this campaign year, and I think the frustration you’re seeing here is old fatigue with that.
This thread is the kind that will make a lurker like me step forward.
I choose my ‘net-based battles as carefully as I choose candidates. When I became a vocal supporter of the McKinney-Clemente ticket last year, my decision was indeed based in part on Colour, Gender and Class. I would be either a liar or a fool to claim otherwise.
Yet, their platform of ideas was the biggest single factor about them that had won me over! No amount of skin pigmentation, clever speechifying, or sisters-in-the-struggle stories could have drawn me to their side unless and until they had shown a solid committment to an inclusive as well as progressive platform. Each time I ventured [eek!] not-so-meekly into those party-boy blogs where blowhard trogs doth dwell, I kept my eye on the prize by always connecting the main points of the McKinney-Clemente platform to major issues, plus solutions, which never even flashed across the dim radar screen of Mister Backpedaling Odorama.
His army of apologists inevitably raised the same-old undignified accusations against Cynthia McKinney in particular and the Green Party in general. Perhaps, in one sense, the cold-shouldered indifference toward Rosa Clemente was a bigger insult than all the loud and low attacks on Cynthia McKinney.
A more obvious point is that though they were ticket mates, these two women each have their individual pov, experiences and merits. Neither woman should be reduced to sound bites and furious assumptions.
Anti-Semitic? Anti-Israel? Check out these links:
Bill Nigut’s 1999 article in The Jewish Times
“Deconstructing Cynthia McKinney”
http://www.atljewishtimes.com/.....0599cs.htm
Uri Avnery’s 2008 article in Tikkun
“Manufacturing Anti-Semites”
http://www.tikkun.org/archive/.....1111f.html
Avnery says,
“Every few years, the Jewish lobby “eliminates” an American politician who does not support the Israeli government unconditionally. This is not done secretly, behind the scenes, but as a public “execution.” Just now the Jewish establishment rallied against the black congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, a young, active, intelligent, and very sympathetic woman. She had dared to criticize the Sharon government, to support the Palestinian cause, and (worst of all from the Jewish establishment’s standpoint) she had gained the support of Israeli and Jewish peace groups.“
Here’s another obvious point: supporting the rights of Palestinians is not tantamount to hating Israelis. When U.S. groups and individuals like Rosa Clemente and the Green Party stand up to wage Peace, they deserve your respect as much as the Israelis who criticize their own government.
Btw, when I took a chance and sent an e-mail to Rosa Clemente one day, I learned just how truly different she was from the same-old politicians: she actually responded herself, in a personal and direct message, straight from the heart and very warm but still professional in tone.
I’ve seen evidence of that passionate and strong heart in her appearance in this thread. You may agree or disagree with her, but I ask you to recognize that she made the time and effort to come in and meet everybody here.
I figure that I may as well assume everybody’s heart is in the right place. In that same spirit of generosity and openness, I implore you to build some new bridges to reach each other, instead of just burning the old ones again to merely “prove” you were “right” about people you perceive as “so different” and issues you think are “too difficult” to confront head on.
A head-to-head, heart-to-heart discussion is exactly what you need to do. Dedicate an area in your blog(s) to the task of navigating/mapping the crossroads of Gender, Race, Class and Power.
Just ask everybody to leave their swords and armor at the gate.
* Question
I, too, missed the show last Monday. Would it be possible to make either a written transcript, or an MP3 copy, available for download?
* Suggestion
Just a couple of days ago, Cynthia McKinney released another Open Letter to Obama. Although Cynthia’s main sites do not [yet] link to it directly, copies of it have been re-posted on numerous blog and news sites; even the DU has it, and the comments there are more positive than you might expect:
http://www.democraticundergrou.....15;4942905
TI – you can listen to it here.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/t.....th-ophelia
You can also download it here.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/The-New-Agenda
The download tab is at the bottom of the section under the teapot picture.
Thanks for your quick reply, Thia!
I apologize for not being more clear when I asked for a direct “MP3 for download” kind of link. I happened to already have the URLs you gave but what I really needed to do was just be a bit more persistent and attentive with my own software. I was then able to save the show as an MP3 audio file, which I can listen to later, off-line, instead of in streaming mode while on-line.
It’s an option I really need because of connection and time constraints.
So I definitely intend to give a listen, and will be interested in other shows from the Ophelia archive. I feel as though I tripped into a trove of great information and conversation.
T.I. – Sometimes it’s a pain to learn new software! It’s worth it for Ophelia though. I try to listen live but if I can’t I download and listen later too. Enjoy!
[...] is how the historic Green Party presidential ticket of Cynthia McKinney and running mate Rosa Clemente was rendered invisible by the [...]
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