How it made me feel…
December 10, 2008
by The New Agenda
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The Favreau story has hit a national nerve, and for many reasons. For some, it is about an assault on a woman, Hillary Clinton, who has already endured so much. A woman who is about to be our country’s face to the rest of the world and deserves some g-d*amn respect! For others, this story is much, much more.
One in four women in our country are victims of domestic violence. 32% of college women are sexually assaulted during their college years. Seeing Favreau groping a woman’s breast while the other male held her hair and poured beer down her throat hits a deep nerve. Then to have to endure watching a replay of a CNN show where three men (no women) snicker about this display – well that is too much to ask.
We want to share a couple of anonymous stories from our members. Feel free to add your story to the comment section (and title your name anonymous if you wish) and share how this has impacted you.
Reaction to Favreau: (Anonymous) I was raped when I was a teenager. Seeing the picture of Favreau stirred up old memories. My first reaction – I just wanted to put on more clothing. Layer after layer. I felt so exposed looking at that picture.
Reaction to Carville: (Anonymous) Hearing those three men laugh took me right back to college. I am in a fraternity house. I am trying to leave. They are laughing at me and pushing me around. I was humiliated then and hearing them laugh made me feel humiliated again.
I kept coming back and posting on this because I felt rage and such frustration at being not being able to make them listen to us. To get them to hear how this hurts us. I was hyperventilating sometimes when I posted. Trying hard to stay focused and rational.
I am very small, and my brothers friends and another one I cannot name, hold me down, laughing and tickling me and pulling at my dress, and at first I try to laugh too because I don’t want them to know I am afraid. And then I one of them puts his hand over my face, and I am hurting, and I don’t know what is happening. And I am seven.
And I am seven.
I had to stop that post, to get control. But I haven’t. And I am in hell tonight. This is what these kinds of things do, for a lifetime.
I’ve heard a number of women say, “I had a visceral reaction to that picture.”
And every time I hear that, I wonder if the reason they have a visceral reaction is the same reason that I have a visceral reaction.
The silence in the mainstream media is unbelieveable!
Great piece on this by Dee Dee Myers in Vanity Fair.
With all due respect, and with the empathy of a woman who has also been sexually assaulted, it is infinitely more important that as a women’s group we focus on how this incident has made us THINK. How this incident has motivated us to ACT. Our FEELINGS are personal and infinitely diverse in their complexities. They are important to us as individuals, but this is NOT an opportunity to pause and reflect in the Mirror of Feelings.
Jon Favreau should be fired immediately. He should have been fired on Saturday. Every day that this man continues to be Obama’s chief speechwriter continues and deepens the undermining of the office of the Secretary of State.
In the private sector Jon Favreau would have been fired on the spot without fanfare and the employers would be right to expect a lawsuit from the woman in the image.
STFU Shift -The -Focus- Up
To anonymous
I know what you mean. When I watched them go after Anita Hill, it brought back my own experiences with sexual assault. The pain and the rage and the fear, and the hopelessness that things will never be better for our daughters.
Indeed, these events bring back memories and the impunity with which these continue to occur to women, here and abroad, to others, and to oneself. We want this to stop.
How will we have authority to address events like this in Pakistan, if we cannot stop them here?
http://www.theweek.com/article.....isogynists
I was wondering about the prevalence of that kind of assault- being groped against your will- that’s what happened to me as a 13 year old by a much older man- I was totally shocked when it happened- and the picture of JF and his cut out immediately brought me back to that moment.
Valentina, I can’t read the week article because it requires I log in using subscription information…what’s the gist?
It is my understanding that Favreau provided the cutout, staged the image, had the picture taken and then published it on the internet. Public communication is this man’s expertise. Was this propaganda?
He could have chosen a cutout of Britney Spears with a grin drinking beer on her own as she enjoyed the action or something like that. This professional communicator chose to stage something very different.
Having lived through a time when women were “bad sports” if they did accept the “harmless” antics of male coworkers – I’m not surprised that we are going backwards. During the Primary and General Election I was called unreasonable, uncompromising, incorrigible, hardened, dyed-in-the-wool, incurable, irredeemable, unrepentant, unapologetic, unashamed, obstinate, willful, headstrong, pigheaded, intransigent, inflexible, irrational, illogical, castrating, ball-busting, asexual, ugly, fat, old, stupid, menopausal, uppity, bitchy, hysterical dragonlady, feminasaurus and broad by the followers of the “One”. As you might guess many of them young women (my daughter included) who view the feminista humanis as a obsolete evolutionary vestigile appendage. Well, look again “sweetie”… now my granddaughter will have to fight to win back the ground this generation is conceding instead of moving closer to a more inclusive realm of equality.
I guess we can add “overly sensitive” to the list.
I fail to see how using Brittney Spears would be less offensive to me John. That you could say that tells me you “don’t get it”.
No woman. No time. The sexual assault, or miming of it, of any woman, is an offense to every woman.
Sorry to join this post late and I may have missed this – but is there any action TNA is going to take as an organization to call further attention to this? A letter to Obama? To the NYT/WaPo/LAT/whoever? To NOW?
I emailed Valerie Jarrett at O’s transition team – but an organized response would be best yes?
Again sorry if I’ve missed that something like that is already going on…?
Sis,
If the cutout is of her grinning, drinking on her own and enjoying the action then it would not depict assault. He chose to depict assault rather than willing participation.
Women don’t enjoy sexual assault aka “the action”. That is a lie men tell themselves and other women, to make what they do to women appear to be consensual.
Read some Robert Jenson.
Sarah,
We have issued a press release and emailed the transition team, media etc. The problem is that right now the media isn’t paying any attention to anything except the Blagojevich issue and the auto bailout. I am going to continue to send emails to the transition team but until some of the current stories calm down, the media has stopped covering this. However, if he stays on the job we should have many more opportunities to bring it back up (especially if he gets in trouble again) when there aren’t so many other things sucking the air out. Greta on FOX has shown some willingness to discuss sexism so I am continuing to email her show.
Robert “Jensen”, whom I suggest to men, although the book has been written, over and over, by radical feminists, it is other men that men listen to.
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjen.....ender.html
It makes me feel naked, degraded, and really sad. Sadly, they will never understand why it was so wrong but maybe we can help stop this kind of behavior with future generations.
Sis,
I live in a world with a large and diverse population of women. Some of the women I know avoid “Women’s Organizations” because they long since got tired of being told that they were not real women due to the fact that, at times and places of their choice, they get somewhat lusty and indulge themselves in some give and take with the men in their lives.
John,
You make a good point about the fact that Jon Favreau staged the entire event, and therefor we should ask what message was he trying to send?
But you are missing the point of women choosing the time and place of whatever action they want.
Before he zeroed in on Hillary, Keith Olbermann used to target young Hollywood “sluts.”
I don’t follow all the ins and outs of celebrities, but I’ve seen enough pictures of Britney’s shaved head along with the headlines to surmise that she has quite a few emotional disturbances.
It’s not OK to dump on her because she’s a celebrity. She’s also a human being.
And you and your women friends who think it’s a-ok to pose for group fondling and post the pictures publicly need to turn off MTV and the “reality” shows and burn your pornographic magazines.
Think of it this way, from your own original point: what message would Jon be sending with a posted picture of a “willing” group-groping participant as a party event?
That it would be wrong to force on an older, accomplished woman, but that it’s a-ok with a young emotionally disturbed celebrity? Or with anonymous women of today who have internalized pornography and misogyny?
I enjoy your posts, but give this some thought. Even as a woman, I’ve learned a lot from interaction on progressive women’s sites.
We all have blind spots, and none of us know how society will actually progress. I’m not into censorship but I hope society will simply outgrow the vile “reality” shows that are so demeaning.
And the fratboy mentality.
John, you live in a world full of the young women that have been complicit in bringing up backwards to this point obviously.
You somehow are under the impression that “us feminists” don’t like sex?
There is no such thing as an aware woman who would enjoy having two guys grope her and mug it up for the camera. Could you find women that say they like that? Yes. These are your friends John- women who are OBLIVIOUS to the lack of status they hold in the world. Women who are utterly unaware of how objectified and worthless they are in the eyes of men. Or sometimes they are women who just choose to degrade themselves for attention- it is the easiest way to get it.
Wake up John. Just because these are your friends doesn’t mean you can’t think for yourself.
I really think the kind of “voluntary” behavior John is talking about is an attention getting thing. I think there is a difference between someone voluntarily disrespecting themselves and an actual assault. Having said that, I think both need to be addressed because we have 14 yr old girls circulating naked pictures of themselves and they seem to have no sense of dignity or self-respect.
It surprises me to hear women talk about the “incident” that this photo brings back in their minds. My gosh – there are so so many incidents that this brings up in my mind. Years and years of incidents.
A woman just learns to cope with it. When to be careful about where you go and with whom. When to be careful about what you wear and who you are friendly to. How to defend yourself emotionally and physically. When to just bite your tongue and put up with it so you don’t 1. lose your job, 2. lose a friend, 3. start a family incident, 4. end up in the hospital.
And now I have a daughter. And I don’t want her to have years and years of incidents. I don’t want her to have to learn to cope.And I’ll be damned if I am going to allow it.
Did you all get that? John just told me how to be a woman. Thanks for proving a point I have made several times in the last couple days: When men are part of women’s rights orgs, they tell women how to be women.
Rape, sexual assault, pornography, are not sex.
Thia. This is how to be a woman, our porn/rape culture says; this is sex it says. Throw your head back and toss your hair and pretend you’re enjoying it. Not enjoying it? Something wrong with you then. Because even a man posting on a feminist website says this is sex. So, it must be.
No. It isn’t and we need to counter this, so that young women don’t think they have to prostitute themselves, and young men don’t see behaviour such as Favreau models as something to emulate.
Sis,
What are your ideas on how to get this message across to younger women and girls? I think that is important.
Thia says:
” I think there is a difference between someone voluntarily disrespecting themselves and an actual assault. Having said that, I think both need to be addressed because we have 14 yr old girls circulating naked pictures of themselves and they seem to have no sense of dignity or self-respect.”
There is no difference. Voluntarily disrespecting oneself happens because society hammers it into young women that being beautiful and slutty is perfection. Be a perfect sex dolly for a man and you will get lots of love and attention.
John considers himself enough of a feminist to come to this site and read the articles and participate in discussions, and yet even he sees a woman voluntarily demeaning herself as healthy “lusty” activity, and tries to make us feel not normal if we think otherwise.
Then Thia, to say that there are 14 year olds that seem to have no dignity or self respect…maybe you didn’t intend it that way, but it sounds like you are blaming them. If no one is in their lives to break the stranglehold societal pressures hold over a young mind- this is the result.
Anne-Marie,
Thank you for the question. This is the note:
A nation that rewards misogynists
Shandana Minhas
The News
Pakistan’s new government claims to be modern-thinking, but its views of women are grounded in the Middle Ages, said novelist Shandana Minhas. The government just appointed two men to the Cabinet who consider women “as cattle to be bought, sold, traded, or slaughtered.” Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani, our new education minister, recently presided over a tribal assembly that offered five little girls as compensation in a murder case. Israrullah Zehri, the new postal minister, has spoken in parliament in defense of the “tribal tradition” of burying teenage girls alive for seeking to marry men of their own choosing. “The chances of Bijarani educating himself about the hierarchy of the justice system and Zehri mailing himself a conscience are slim to none.” Yet our president, Asif Ali Zardari, had the gall to stand before the U.N. recently and implore the world to follow Pakistan in combating bigotry. Evidently he does not consider s a form of bigotry.
How to get the message across? Well for one children shouldn’t be able to instantly access gang rape videos and teen porn and all the other horrid degrading pornography readily available for free on the internet.
Secondly, if you stop watching prime time main channel TV for awhile, and then turn it on- you will really notice how every show is about violence to women- women getting killed, raped, kidnapped, drugged, beaten. Half naked prostitutes and strippers, etc. The main characters are violent good guy males with guns, and occasionally there is a “smart hot woman detective type” who is okay even though she is a woman- because she is tough and takes on the attitudes and manners of the men. Or you can change the channel and see reality show after reality show with dumb beautiful young people degrading themselves for money. Why??
Thirdly, there is no education in schools on the accomplishments or history of women. This is HUGE HUGE HUGE and has to change.
Lisa,
My point about the 14 year olds was what are they being taught? and how can we teach them something different and better? I feel the opposite of that they are to blame, I think they are a generation of future victims if we can’t find a way to teach them something better. I am was trying to point out that with an involuntary assault, there is no education of the victims that would make any difference (hence involuntary) but the voluntary disrespecting of themselves can be changed by giving them an alternate way to feel good about themselves that is not related to sexualization. I have the flu today so I am clearly not thinking or communicating well.
Thia, good- I was hoping it was just miscommunication, and yes, I agree- these girls have much to learn
They shouldn’t be using “Girls Gone Wild” videos for modeling behavior, and if they aren’t getting the correct message from their home or mothers, then there needs to be other resources.
(sorry you have the flu)
Interesting Lisa, I was thinking of GGW when I first saw Favreau’s photo. This is what he thinks is sex. It was just shocking to me to see a well educated purportedly intelligent and gifted young man obviously had the same viewpoint of women as the GGW founder. Although why it was shocking I don’t know because I’ve been shocked to death over the past several years of seeing the pornification of human sexuality.
I’m sorry Thia I can’t off the top of my head spit out solutions to this. It’s so deep, so multi-focal, and so pervasive, that we will see posts like the one made here. Scratch the bright shiny surface of nascent ‘feminist’ and there it is. Sexist rot.
Frankly, I am too busy trying to do what I can for feminism, and girls and women. Let the men sort themselves out. It’s not, really not, my responsibility to educate them. The help desk is closed. Look how much time we are spending on it, here now. Lets get this conversation back to women.
I think it’s very important what we model for young women, what we bring into their lives, and ours.
Did you know that America’s Next Top Model has dolls in the Toy section of your stores. Flav O’ Flav’s Flav o’ Love and Charm School show girls acting stupid, getting drunk and having sex. Think about it. These girls are on television. They must be successful because people are watching them. This must be the way real women act. I am sure that men have been conquering women forever, so I can’t blame television for that. However, if socialogy is correct, and children learn what they live, then maybe we should be displaying the the action we want to see.
Folks, I want all of you to read this, including John:
Men are welcome at The New Agenda. The vision of the organization is a big tent, with people from all walks of life invited to join the struggle.
John is welcome here, as are other men who sympathize with our struggle and are trying to educate themselves about feminism.
HOWEVER: men in a group like this do need to be extremely careful about honoring women’s own experience, particularly in such a painful area as sexual assault. I’ve been a feminist for 37 years, and based on that experience, I generally advise men to quietly listen and learn — and not talk — when women start discussing their feelings about sexual assault. This is true of even the most sincerely pro-feminist men, who invariably blunder into things they don’t quite understand. Women’s feelings on this topic are always very raw, so there is little margin for error.
That goes double in an awkward forum like a blog thread, where we can’t see each other’s faces or hear each other’s tone of voice.
I agree. I like seeing men willing to read and learn and participate. As long as they are willing to listen.
Ditto Lisa and Violet.
I agree…John makes some good points. And he appears to have dropped the defensive attitude…at least, that’s the positive spin on his cessation of arguing his misguided point.
I think Lisa nailed it here:
“John considers himself enough of a feminist to come to this site and read the articles and participate in discussions, and yet even he sees a woman voluntarily demeaning herself as healthy ‘lusty’ activity, and tries to make us feel not normal if we think otherwise.”
Another resident male here used the C- word and also used very violent demeaning images when disparaging Hillary Clinton…and most unfortunately was quoted in a mainstream source, which was so mortifying to anyone who doesn’t want to be associated with these swaggering cowboy shooting-off-the-mouth opinions by those who for some reason feel compelled to come here and tell women what to think.
When I went to a WILPF conference, we were taught that men spoke last and everyone only spoke once except for minorities who spoke twice. It was a way to balance out voices not ordinarily heard.
Thank goodness the leadership here is allowing these views to be aired. Men should feel welcome to participate here, but lecture? Lead? I don’t think so. There is something especially suspect about those who incessantly rush to get the first post in….let alone act as if they know how we should feel or think. And women members ought to be able to air their discomfort without worrying their legitimate discomfort might be censured or censored.
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